559 - Do copywriting right: Tom interviews Lorrie Morgan - Screw The Commute

559 – Do copywriting right: Tom interviews Lorrie Morgan

Lorrie Morgan of Red Hot Copy and she's been an expert at breaking down marketing messages to bite sized bullets and hooks for twenty two years. So, she says the best thing about being an entrepreneur is she works when she wants, so she can spend more time with her horses.

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Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 559

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[03:37] Tom's introduction to Lorrie Morgan

[08:50] Coaching others to get their own voice in copywriting

[10:42] Writing in an aggressive testosterone environment

[17:30] Horses stay outside most of the time

[20:19] Tips for promoting via “copy”

[27:49] Laying out the features and benefits

[30:38] Sponsor message

[32:23] A typical day for Lorrie

Entrepreneurial Resources Mentioned in This Podcast

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Episode 559 – Lorrie Morgan
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.

[00:00:24] Hey everybody, it's Tom here with episode five hundred and fifty nine of Screw The Commute podcast. What till you hear about the guest I have on today, Lorrie Morgan. Now there are very few people in the world that I remember the day I met them. And she is one of them. I was speaking at a thing for Mark Joyner in Los Angeles, and I'm sitting there waiting for my turn to speak. But out of the corner of my eye, I can see there's two supermodels like sitting in the crowd, like not far from me and I'm thinking, Oh man, this can't be only nerd women show up to these things. So, of course, I was being cool and didn't let them know I was checking them out. And that was one of them, Lorrie Morgan. And since then, I've known her for many, many years. I've loved her work with copy and all the great things she's done over the years that she's going to tell you about when I bring her on in a minute. And then I've got a beautifully embarrassing story about her that there's no way she's going to get out of here without me telling it.

[00:01:37] All right. So how'd you like to make big commissions off referring my stuff? Well, you can make for speaking engagement even five thousand or more. And then we have products in all price ranges and we never get refunds or returns because we actually take care of people around here. So check that out by emailing me at Tom@screwthecommute.com and then make sure you pick up a copy of our automation ebook. I've been hammering you for this for five hundred and what? fifty nine episodes now. But when you download this thing and implement even some of it, you will thank me because it'll save you enormous amounts of time. You'll be able to ethically steal customers from people because you'll be getting back to them so fast, and most of the stuff is free or super cheap. That's in this book, and we sell the book for twenty seven bucks, but it's yours free for listening to the show. So pick it up at screwthecommute.com/automatefree. And then while you're at it, pick up a copy of our podcast app at screwthecommute.com/app. You can put us on your cell phone and tablet and take us with you on the road. Now we're still in the middle of this wonderful pilot program. I started to help persons with disabilities get scholarships, and we'd love to have your help on this.

[00:02:56] It's this kind of training and internet and digital marketing is just perfect for people with with mobility problems. And guess what? Two of the people in the program are blind, and they make better videos than I do. You won't believe it when you see this, so check it out at IMTCVA.org/disabilities. Of course, we'll have this and all Lorrie's great stuff in the show notes and click over to the Go Fund Me campaign, and anything you can kick in would be great. But hey, if you're really flush with cash, you could sponsor a person yourself and guess what? It's something you could be proud of the rest of your life for changing a person's life for the better. So, check it out.

[00:03:38] All right, let's get to the main event. Lorrie Morgan of Red Hot Copy and she's been an expert at breaking down marketing messages to bite sized bullets and hooks for twenty two years. And that's hard to believe because she doesn't even look like she's 22 when you if you ever see her. So, she says the best thing about being an entrepreneur is she works when she wants, so she can spend more time with her horses. Lorrie, are you ready to screw? The commute?

[00:04:09] Yeah, let's do. Screw that commute.

[00:04:12] How are you doing, kiddo?

[00:04:14] I'm doing great, but what a great intro. I remember the first time I met you too. I was in awe. They were like three thousand people in that. Maybe not that. No, there were a ton of people in that event.

[00:04:26] So I think there was about eleven hundred that day, but there was two of them that stood out and it was you and your friend.

[00:04:35] That's so funny. Yeah, we kind of milked that, to be honest.

[00:04:39] You did. I know, I know. But when you're with a bunch of guy geek internet marketers, yeah, yeah. It's pretty easy to do.

[00:04:49] It was, but you were actually so instrumental in getting me started, actually just giving me some of the lessons that you give your mentees and starting me on the path to get paid, paid, paid and just making you opened up my eyes to a whole new world about how you could actually make money with your own products. That was one hundred percent Tom Antion.

[00:05:15] Well, I'm thrilled about that, and I'm thrilled that you're now able to realize your dream. You got six horses there, right?

[00:05:22] We got six. One of them's pregnant, so we have a little baby in the summer.

[00:05:26] So you know what? That's, you know, we were talking earlier about, you know, I didn't have any experience with horses, but there's one that I did, and I was at a friend of mine's house in high school and a baby horse. What they called a foal was being born. And this is another one of those moments like I remember you as supermodel at that event, but this is another thing that's indelibly etched in my mind. We had to tie a chain around the arms paws, I don't know what you call these things, of this horse and pull it out of the mother. And that's something you do not forget. Did you ever see something like that?

[00:06:09] No, I haven't.

[00:06:12] Yeah. Wow. And then 20 minutes later, the little bugger is walking around. I'm like, This is unbelievable.

[00:06:19] It's so cool. But I mean, they have to because their prey animals that they can't get up and get moving. They could get eaten. Oh my gosh. You get moving. It's wonderful. They're so graceful.

[00:06:29] I mean, it looked pretty tasty to me, but I wasn't going to do that. That's more Europe where they eat horse meat.

[00:06:35] Yeah, that's right.

[00:06:37] Well I'm glad I had some small part in your beginnings and you sure took and ran with it. So tell me about your red hot copy and what you're doing with that

[00:06:50] Red hot copy. Well, I can't believe you know, when you say twenty two years that I've been doing it this long, it's really it feels like a blink of an eye, honestly. But it's so, I met you. You were one of the first like real live internet marketers I met, and then I started going to more events and meeting other marketers and copywriters. And I don't know how many people are on this or know the, you know, the gurus of my industry. But Gary Halbert and John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, those guys, I literally worked with them all under them as mentors and learned a lot about copywriting. And what I found out over the years pretty early on actually was that they write and not just them, but the style of writing copy has been very masculine, right? And really testosterone, and hypey and like, get this or died, right?

[00:07:47] Well, you know, we probably should back up this one second to make sure that, you know, because there's new people on here. We're not talking about copyrighting your book and putting it in the Library of Congress as a copyright. We're talking about advertising copywriting here. So just wanted to make that clear for everybody.

[00:08:06] I'm glad you did. Thank you. Yeah, I don't want to lose anybody along the way here. So copywriting is basically all the words that you use to sell in your emails and your websites and sales letters themselves, and now you see them in videos and infomercials and things like that. So you see it probably everywhere. But I didn't even know what a copywriter was when I was one at first. I was writing copy and didn't know it had a name. It was just like, I'm a writer. People are paying me to write these things. And then I found out, Oh no, you're a copywriter. That's a very specific kind of thing. And then that was obviously early in my career. But yeah, a lot of people don't know. The copywriters and the copyright trademark thing are very different. I don't know anything about that.

[00:08:51] So you're a copywriting coach, right? So besides having started writing copy for people now, you coach others?

[00:09:01] Yeah, that's my favorite thing to do really is not write for clients as much as teaching other people, especially entrepreneurs, how to kind of get their own voice into their websites, into their emails and stuff. Because it's, you know, at the end of the day, they are, they're selling themselves. So not to slam hiring a copywriter, that's a good thing to do. But so many people are able to actually write themselves if they just know a few basics and get a little guidance from a professional.

[00:09:33] Yeah, I'll all over that. You know, I really believe in that, I loved it when you said bite sized little chunks and hooks and things because there's elements that you can put in, you need to know how to write bonuses and guarantees. And if you break it down into little chunks, you know you can do this without paying a lot of money. And I always tell people, if you hire a good copywriter. Really good copywriter, you're not going to save any time because a good copywriter is going to interview you for hours to figure out what exactly you're trying to sell.

[00:10:12] Yeah, exactly exactly right. Because we got to get into your head. So yeah, and you're already there.

[00:10:21] And then you have to proof it to make sure they didn't claim something that you can't produce. So you've got to read every word like a hawk, you know, so you just learn how to write them yourself.

[00:10:33] Exactly. I feel bad for all the copywriters I'm dissing right now.

[00:10:42] So, how did you get out of this super testosterone part of it, because that's what you were surrounded by.

[00:10:51] I was surrounded by it, and I actually really love to write that way. I love to write that it's sort of like just aggressive copy. It's fun. It's got energy to it, but it also turns a lot of people off. And so when I started having my own live events and people came to see me, Lorrie Morgan. And then that's when they told me, Hey, you know what? I really hate that kind of copy that's just like, beat you over the head and isn't there a better way to do it? And I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't know what to say because I learned from these great great guys and this is what they said to do. So I literally kind of pulled back for about a year and did a lot of research on different language patterns and how women and men, you know, in general, making big generalities. But they take words in differently. And so there's a certain style. You can say the same thing, but you can say it's softer to reach like a female or a more feminine audience, whereas with the masculine, you know, it's kind of bullying sometimes and, you know, in your face and it just shuts people down sometimes. So I came up with a system based on the masculine copy, but softer called the She Factor, and I was teaching that in workshops and boot camps and live events for years until I got divorced. And then I took it off the market, so I'm putting it back on.

[00:12:22] Well, you know what I would have told that person when they came up to me. Well, that copy got you here, didn't it? Now go sit down. Shut up.

[00:12:32] There you go.

[00:12:33] So the she factor, huh?

[00:12:36] The she factor. I am still really proud of it. But I I had to take it off the market because I wanted to get my married name off of all of my products. And so it will be back. It'll be at my website, redhotcopy.com. I know you're going to say it anyway, but it will be there soon. Coming soon. And it's a way to teach business owners, people who aren't necessarily copywriters, how to reach the female market. And women actually make eighty five percent of buying decisions. We buy all the crap. And not only that, but we have veto power over like big purchases, right? Like if your husband is going to go out and get a car, he's going to talk to his wife. Or if your kids are going to have crest toothpaste or Colgate, the mom's going to decide and they're going to stick with that brand. So women have a lot more influence in a lot of ways over buying decisions, even if it's not, you know, exchanging dollars for for the product, even though there's certainly a huge amount of that. Like, I buy, you know, underwear for for my boyfriend, right? So I'm the one doing it. He's using them. But it's still women make a lot of the buying decisions. So it's really smart to know how to reach them.

[00:14:02] Yeah. And what's really kind of bizarre that you're telling me this now is the person that got me started in the speaking industry. Her name was Dottie Walters and she was the first woman that started teaching selling to women. Did you know that?

[00:14:25] I don't think I knew that.

[00:14:28] And yeah, I spoke at her memorial service when she passed, but now I'm hoping I don't have to speak at yours because we need you.

[00:14:39] Likewise.

[00:14:40] We need you to be teaching us how to sell to women. You know, it was we did some webinars on Pinterest, and supposedly that's 80 percent or so women and the amount of money they spend is like seven, eight, nine times the average amount a woman spends on Facebook. So that'd be a good place to concentrate.

[00:15:04] Uh, yeah. I'll check that out, I always learned things from you, Tom.

[00:15:08] Well, I learned stuff from you too about horses, you know, because I've always been interested in horses. But other than Clydesdales, I didn't really know much about them, and it took a Clydesdale for me to ride one, I think, or two Clydesdales.

[00:15:23] Yeah, it might be a little bit much for my horse to handle anyway. The horses only weigh about eight hundred to a thousand pounds. So I don't know what you weigh.

[00:15:40] What do they eat? What do the horses eat?

[00:15:46] Yeah, they eat hay. So we buy bales of hay and they get like a it's called a flake, so they get like a square of hay twice a day. And then they get.

[00:15:59] I thought they they'd eat people from California. Flakes.

[00:16:04] There's so docile, they really don't want to hurt people.

[00:16:12] But how did you last so long in California because you're a nice smart person and not a flake? How did you last so long?

[00:16:23] I loved California for the longest time. It was kind of a magical place, and then it just started going downhill with the taxes and the gas prices and all the restrictions. This is before the pandemic, right? Yeah, it just started getting really restrictive and the traffic, oh my gosh, I hated the traffic. But of course, you know, like you, I worked from home, so I screwed the commute most of the time. But you still have to go get groceries and stuff like that. And now where I live in Arizona, the closest town is forty five minutes away. So when I get groceries, it's literally like half a day because you drive there you shop and you drive back and there's nobody around. The closest gas station is 13 miles away.

[00:17:11] There's no homeless people laying on your porch when you come back.

[00:17:13] There's no homeless people here. They would not be able to handle the very harsh conditions in the desert, so it gets cold and hot. They wouldn't do well. I don't know how I stood California. It did have beautiful weather.

[00:17:30] Yeah, that's about it. Yeah, so. But speaking with that, with the cold and hot in the desert, the horses, do they stay outside all the time? Or are they in a barn?

[00:17:40] They have a barn, but they do stay outside most of the time. And it's snowed here a couple of times and rained and it's gotten windy. The wind is the worst because they can get like 30 miles, 40 miles an hour.

[00:17:54] Blowing sand in their face?

[00:17:56] It does that they just kind of deal with it. In the wintertime, we've tried to put blankets on them just a couple of nights. They have horsey blankets and my horse, Han Solo, has never had a blanket on him before, and he flipped the heck out. He just he was like, I thought you were trying to kill him. OK, you're going to stay cold. So he did not get a blanket and the other smart horses did.

[00:18:27] So you're saying your horse is the dumbest one of the bunch?

[00:18:34] He might be.

[00:18:37] I think I only know one horse joke is the horse goes into the bar and the bartender says, you know, the horse is looking all sad, and the bartender says, Hey, why the long face?

[00:18:54] But you can learn a lot about entrepreneurship, actually from horses to just because, yeah, how it's well, you have to be very present and in the moment with and take like all your surroundings and when you're around horses because they get scared of anything. And so if they might bolt and hurt you.

[00:19:17] I thought I remember seeing little kids on horses where they're just walking real, slow and in a circle.

[00:19:25] They can do that for sure. But if you ride the way we ride out in these mountains, on these trails where the Apache Indians used to go, then it's a little bit more rugged. So you've got to you really have to be communicating with your horses. So how that's like with entrepreneurship is just sort of like really being present. Maybe that's not entrepreneurship. Maybe that's just life.

[00:19:49] I'm thinking, like, do you have to go, Nayyyy, like communicating with the horse?

[00:19:59] Yeah. You know, what's funny is they don't make nearly as much noise in real life as they do in the Westerns. They hardly ever make any noise. They're very quiet.

[00:20:07] There used to be that show with Wilbur, where the yeah. Mr Ed. Yeah. He communicated really well.

[00:20:16] Yeah, yeah. So he did a good job.

[00:20:20] All right. So for the the entrepreneurs? What should they start when they start thinking about promoting their business from the standpoint of copy? What are some tips you would give to them?

[00:20:32] Well, I'm going to try to keep it to where.

[00:20:36] We don't need to get in the weeds.

[00:20:37] So basically, when you you want to start with copy, you need to know what the difference is between a feature and a benefit. Yeah, right. I mean, it's it seems kind of basic, but a lot of times business owners will confuse. Features as benefits, so a feature is sort of like the thing of what your product is and the benefit is what it does and how it looks in your life. So for example, if you had like a red pen, let's say. The feature is that it's red, and so what does that do for you in your life? Well, it's easy to find so you don't lose your pins when you have to write a million dollar cheque or something. You always have a pen nearby, so that's a very simplified, but it's you basically want to look for what's going to make that person's life better, and that's what you want to highlight in your copy. So you want to look at that's because they want to know what's in it for them. They all we all want to know that all the time never going to change. And so when you're writing your message to them, a lot of times people get real caught up in like, why have all these credentials, which is great. But at the end of the day, we want to know. So like, what does that do for me? And so you have to kind of it's a little counterintuitive sometimes, but it's not that hard. It sounds harder if the way I'm explaining it, but it's really not. So you just keep in mind. Who it is that you're talking to and the more you can think of like an even an actual real person, like if I'm selling something to you Tom, like think of like what would get you excited, like a tennis racket or something.

[00:22:20] I could think of other things that get me excited.

[00:22:22] Well, this is the PG show.

[00:22:25] You're right. Okay, I'm yeah, I'll be good, although I would rather be signing that million dollar cheque than writing it to somebody else.

[00:22:34] Exactly. So that's a big thing is knowing what the benefits are, knowing what's in it for them and also sort of talking to one person, like when you're writing copy, when you're writing a message, when you're writing anything, it's really easy to think of like this big group of people like right now, I'm sure there's like hundreds of millions of people listening to us, but I only want to think about the one person who's sitting there listening to us, and I would write my copy to reach a single person because then it sounds like I'm just talking to the one person. Even though lots of different people are hearing the same message, they feel like it's just just to them. And when you start to make a connection, then you start to build like a relationship through the page or through the screen or however you're getting your message out there. So it's important to write to one person.

[00:23:38] Is that what they would call the avatar?

[00:23:41] It's what they would call the avatar, it's what I would call the target, which is a term I made up before I knew there was a term called the avatar. So it's a target is your target markets and a target is a single person in your target market. That's sort of your ideal client. And yes it's an avatar. It's a persona. It's one person. So but it represents. All of not every single quality of every person, like if if I'm writing to my target or my avatar is Nikki Stanton, and she's a divorced mother of one and lives in one hundred and seventeen thousand home in San Diego, and she has a computer software business, and she likes to take her daughter to dance class. So all those qualities are not going to be Tom Antion qualities. But Tom Antion might still want to buy something from me, but I still write to Nikki Stanton, so it sounds like when Tom reads it, Oh, she's writing to me.

[00:24:50] Yeah, on my way to dance class. A good day on the dance floor for me is if I don't hurt anybody. I got to take a break here, and I can't let Lorrie get out of here without telling a story on her because she's just the sweetest woman. And back in the early days she was on one of I had thrown a, I don't know, some event online and my regular people weren't around to record it. So I put a call out.


[00:25:29] I threw a class on Thanksgiving, so so nobody was around to record it. So I put a call out to my students and said, Well, who would anybody mind doing doing this? And she's like waving her hand like a little kid in kindergarten? I'll do it all. I said, Well, are you sure you know how to do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom I could do it. I could do it. Ok. Are you sure? Lorrie Yeah, absolutely. Tom I'll do it for you. So she, just like I said, it's totally sweet. So as we start this tele seminar, you can't see anything but I'm hearing her start giggling. She's quite a giggling and got a great sense of humor, but I'm hearing her giggling when I should not hear crap. I shouldn't hear anything. So I know something's wrong, but I can't stop right in the middle of this thing. And I think it was one minute and thirty seven seconds in like I hear her, so I don't remember.

[00:26:24] It was longer because I was waiting a long time.

[00:26:28] Was six, Seven, eight, 10 minutes in and then I hear tinkle, tinkle, tinkle tinkle and then I hear the toilet flush and I'm like, Oh man, I can't edit this out. It's this is here for eternity.

[00:26:45] That was the reason you want to edit it, that I didn't want to after that because I knew I'd have something on you for the rest of your life, you know?

[00:26:55] But it's funny. I wasn't even that embarrassed about. I thought it was funny. Oh goodness, I have a good sense of humor. Yeah, I bet you do, too.

[00:27:03] Oh, thank goodness you're only doing number one instead. Oh my gosh. Plop, plop. Or you were out with the horses and they really leave a big problem. You know what? Another thing I remember one of those vivid moments from your life was the first a bunch of horses got loose in and I lived out in a rural area and really hadn't been up close to any horses. And this horses are beautiful, but they had slongs like three feet long on horses and I'm like, holy. I couldn't believe it. You know, these things are that's where they say hung like a horse, I guess.

[00:27:51] I think so.

[00:27:55] So back to copy. So yeah, features and benefits. I mean, and a lot of people, you know, I'd say to them, if you can't think of the benefit of your product, you can't expect the potential customer to think about it, right? You. You've got to lay it out for him, right?

[00:28:17] Exactly. Yeah, you have to connect the dots for them. Don't assume they're going to figure they're going to see it and go, Oh, wow, this is great. It's going to make me all this money saving all this time. You've got to point it out for them and not assume anything.

[00:28:30] And multiple times, sometimes because I get some people that assume that somebody has watched their whole video and then gone over to their sales letter. Well, good luck with that, you know, because most of them don't get seen that much, you know. So you can't assume their pre knowledge unless they've been on a webinar with you for and clear till the end, then you know that they were at least exposed to the information, but they could have been multitasking or answering the door, you know, or doing something while you're on the webinar, so you really have to spell it out for them.

[00:29:06] You do. That's really true, I like that you said that you have to kind of repeat, wash, wash, rinse, repeat, it's OK if you say things more than once because like you said, people are are busy or they're distracted.

[00:29:21] I mean, you can say in a different way, you know, if you want. But now one of these books, I got it right here. I keep it next to me all the time. It's called words that sell by Rich Bayan. Now the more words that sell is like the poor sequel and the phrases it's sell. No good, but the words that sell is like a classic. And it's not a book that you read, folks. It's like if you want to say something is results oriented, it gives you like 60 or 70 different ways to say that. So it's really a great resource thing.

[00:29:58] It's a great book. It's like a thesaurus for copywriting, right? I mean, or for marketers, you find different language that is emotional and exciting instead of dull and flat.

[00:30:11] Yeah, yeah. And now most people that I know that are good at copy have written have read the Cialdini book multiple times, which is the psychology of persuasion. And yeah, yeah, it's one of the classics. The guy's still and he's not even dead yet. He's alive, and it's a classic. So good for him. And he was an Arizona guy. He was Arizona State professor. Oh, it's called influence the psychology of persuasion. Yeah, so we got to take a brief sponsor break when we come back. Lorrie's going to tell you about some things she's got coming up. And also, we want to hear what her daily routine is like if she has, like a morning routine, does she get up early. How does she run her business? All that stuff.

[00:31:02] So, folks. Oh, about twenty five years ago, I kind of turned the internet marketing guru world on its head, and the people at my level were charging fifty or 100 hundred grand up front to teach what they knew to small business people. And I knew a lot of these people they'd be hiding out in, you know, probably further away than Lorrie's house in Mexico somewhere because they wouldn't teach you anything. So I said, this is not right. So what I did is I started charging an entry fee that was way lower. And then for me to get my fifty thousand, you had to net two hundred thousand.

[00:31:38] Well, people love this and seven hundred plus students later, it's still going strong. So it's the longest running, most unique ever in this field. Nobody will put their program up against mine because of, you know, it's one on one. I'm a crazy fanatics. You just heard her say I threw a freaking event on Thanksgiving because it was not that I did it on purpose. I just didn't notice it was Thanksgiving. That's really pitiful. I get it. But then you get a immersion weekend and our retreat center here in Virginia Beach and you get another trip where we shoot videos and our TV studio for you so nobody can hold a candle to this program. So check it out at greatinternetmarketingtraining.com and also keep in mind those persons with disabilities. We'd love to have your help on that, and it's something you can really be proud of.

[00:32:30] Let's get back to the main event. We're here with Lorrie Morgan from Red Hot Copy, and she's a copywriting coach and businesswoman par excellence. So, what's a typical day look like for you?

[00:32:45] It's ridiculous since I moved out here, I cannot sleep past freaking five o'clock and I was up today, I woke up at 4:00. It's ridiculous. And we have our bathroom has like a turret, right? Like a castle thing. So there's windows that go around the whole thing.

[00:33:07] So all the neighbors can see?

[00:33:09] They can't. There's no neighbors. So yes, they could, but they can't because they're not here. But you look out in the stars look like a painting is just beautiful. They are the most gorgeous sunrises and the drop dead sunsets I've ever seen.

[00:33:25] Have you seen the Southern Cross, that constellation that can only be seen from down around where you live?

[00:33:36] I don't know.

[00:33:37] Look it up.

[00:33:38] I've got to look it up.

[00:33:38] I've never seen it until I was in Tucson, and then I got to say it. Yeah, you can probably see it.

[00:33:43] Oh, thanks for telling me that. That's something good to look for. We see all kinds of shooting stars and and just there's so the stars are so bright. So anyway, I love I wake up and it sounds like like I'm lying here, but I'm excited when I get up because I, where I live on 14 acre ranch with mountains in the background and trees, we have one of the few properties that have a lot of trees. We have oaks and I don't know what else. There's a bunch of different trees. We have a lot of trees and wildlife. We have have javelina pigs and deer and coyotes, and there is even a mountain lion up here. A couple of weeks ago, I didn't see him, but our neighbors, they took a picture of him.

[00:34:31] The coyotes are a danger to your animals?

[00:34:35] Yeah, they would be. You can hear them like in the distance, having a party, like a party. And so we bring the dogs inside when we hear that, but usually the dogs are with us and we're armed because, you know, if something happened to my dog, I'm sorry. Yeah, my dog comes first. So anyway, so yeah, I'm up at four thirty five o'clock every day and then we get up and we have coffee. We do the New York Times crossword puzzle and whatever till the Sun comes up. And then we go feed the horses. So everybody gets a flake of hay and they go all every horse gets put in its stall and every horse has its own water thing, and then I feed the chickens and collect the eggs and then we go muck the poop. And that's that's my exercise, dude. I can eat whatever I want because burning calories every day. And so by now, it's like eight o'clock in the morning and then I start work, come up to my office and and work on whatever I'm working on. Like right now, I'm working on a bullet workshop that will probably it may be launched by now, but it'll be around because it'll be a product because I learned from Tom Antion.

[00:35:57] We're getting ahead of ourselves here. So it's a good thing that you work from home because it seems to me you just outlined the fact you came directly from horseshit to work that day.

[00:36:12] So that is literally true.

[00:36:14] You can't smell through Zoom, so I guess right now you might have just come from there. I don't know.

[00:36:22] That's right. Someday they'll have a smell of Zoom. That's horrible. I hope that never happens. So, yeah, that's the way it goes. So yeah, I'll work. If I if I work, I'll have a call with my copy coach, people, people I coach. And then the rest of the day, I could either go for a horseback ride, which we have to actually drive our horses in a trailer to go to the nice places that are really pretty because there everyone has barbed wire out here. So you can't really go on people's property.

[00:36:57] But you have 14 acres. Can't you ride around in circles a little bit?

[00:37:01] Yes, you could do that, but it gets a little boring. Yeah, but yeah, we we definitely could.

[00:37:06] So these are the horses where you throw the western saddle on like the western shows you see on TV. You're not sitting there with a little stupid black cap and riding side saddle, right?

[00:37:20] Right now we don't right? Right. We don't ride English, we ride Western. Yeah, it's cowboy country right here.

[00:37:26] Do you have do you have a scabbard for a rifle?

[00:37:30] My partner does. I don't. I don't carry that. I just carry a handgun on the trail for the same reason because there's wildlife out there and I've never had to use it. But if you need it, you want to have it.

[00:37:45] Now are the horses acclimated to gunfire?

[00:37:48] No, they aren't.

[00:37:51] You could get your ass thrown pretty far if you had to shoot from the horse right?

[00:37:55] It would not be pretty. They don't like that sound.

[00:37:59] Well, you know, we have a protection dog company here on the side and we had to, you know, certain dogs, we have to acclimate them to gunfire and make them what we call gunfire neutral. So OK, because you don't want them attacking the person with the gun because it could be you. So you want them to just not pay attention if there's gunfire. And we had sometimes we had to put Kotex in their ears to protect them, you know, from the noise, you know, for practice purposes, you know? Yeah, yeah, I don't know if we do that in real life. Hold up, you know, burglar, we have to put the kotex in the dog's ears.

[00:38:41] Oh my gosh. All right. So listen, they make horse earplugs for gunshots.

[00:38:47] Well, yeah. And then we started, like far away from them and then somebody close to them would give them a treat when the gunfire went off, you know, so they stayed associated with something good, you know, and then you keep getting closer and closer and closer over time. Yeah. So that's gunfire neutral.

[00:39:06] Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really cool. Yeah, we don't really try to mix guns and horses together at the same time, although there are sports where you can shoot cowboy mounted shooting, where you can shoot. Yeah, yeah, off of a horse. And we were going to do that. But our horses hated the gunshots so much we just didn't.

[00:39:22] Well, yeah, they have to definitely be acclimated to.

[00:39:25] Right, exactly.

[00:39:27] What about little critters like if a squirrel ran in front of the horse, is that like freak them out?

[00:39:33] It can, you never know. We have these things called Coda Mundi, have you heard of coda mundi? They are weird looking like raccoon, wild monkey looking things.

[00:39:53] So they're really erratic when they run around and they ran in front of our horses and we were waiting for them to spook and they didn't. So you never know. But a plastic bag can fly by and they'll go What the hell was that? You never know. They are strange.

[00:40:16] Do they wear blinders?

[00:40:18] No, no. I mean, when I say that term, I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about. I'm saying.

[00:40:23] That's like. So they can't see off the side. Ok.

[00:40:27] That is the correct term for that?

[00:40:29] Uh-huh. Yeah, they don't do that. If they were pulling a carriage or something, they might would. But they we want them to be able to see, especially when we're walking on trails that are very steep on these mountain cliffs. Yeah.

[00:40:41] That's what I want. I want you to pull me in a stagecoach.

[00:40:46] Ok, we'll keep it. You have one of those on the tombstone, which is forty five minutes away.

[00:40:52] Yeah, if I heard that was quite a letdown, like you go pay a fortune and then they say, OK, there's a OK corral, right? There it is.

[00:40:59] It is like, if you know, if you're a history buff, that's really cool. That's where it really happens.

[00:41:05] It's like when I went to to L.A., I always wanted to see the La Brea Tar Pits. There's a letdown.

[00:41:14] Yeah, it's like, here's some dirt, some tar. It's all right.

[00:41:21] Yeah. All right. So basically, you work a little bit in the morning and then hell with everybody and you just have fun the rest of the day.

[00:41:28] Most days, yeah. And then it's wonderful. I do have to go to bed, though. By eight o'clock, I'm dead by eight o'clock because it's hard. It's hard working.

[00:41:41] Like I know what happens if you two had to travel somewhere. What happens?

[00:41:47] We have a neighbor who's about five miles away, who has taken care of the horses, but so far one of us is usually here. So we haven't had both of us travel with all the horses, so right now. We're kind of a prisoner.

[00:42:06] But if one, if one person had to do all that stuff, that's like, Wow, right?

[00:42:12] It could be done, though, because like, I've gone away for the weekend and Scott's gone away for the weekend at different times and one of us can do it all. But you know, you would have, I guess, you'd get a horse babysitter. We'd have to.

[00:42:24] I would say, I have to go away for the morning. I'll be back by the time you're done shoveling the shit.

[00:42:34] Exactly. Now that's my workout, though I can eat anything I want.

[00:42:39] Yeah, you look just like the day I met you. So good for you. So. Tell me about this thing. You got this bullet program or whatever it is. The bullet.

[00:42:51] Let me back up a little because you're right, I did dive into that. So one of the things that I learned. That's kind of a secret, even among copywriters, is that when you're writing your copy, the best thing to do is to write the features and benefits, but to make them into bullets first. And so a bullet is sort of like a little another, like a bite sized piece of information that either teases what's in the product or gives them a little excited charge about what to expect and gives them a little detail about what they're going to buy. So it's basically to make them feel emotional and excited about it. And it's a little bit more advanced. It's not really what I'm teaching. You need to have a little bit of copywriting skills. You can't just kind of dive into this from never knowing anything about copy, but you write your bullets first because bullets can be the headlines, they can be email subject lines. They can be the hook of what your copy is going to be about. So it gets like all these ideas bubbling up before you actually sit down to write your copy, because it can be kind of intimidating to look at the blank screen and go, Oh my God, where do I start? So if you start with features and benefits and turn those into bullets, then you have, like all these ideas, kind of spilling out and then you can organize them into chunks and make your sales copy from there.

[00:44:18] So what I'm doing is teaching people who, like I said, mostly people who have some experience with writing for themselves. It's not for brand new people, but it teaches them how to do research on the target market, how to distill that down into your target or your avatar, and how to write to that single person and how to really connect with them emotionally and write bullets that are going to make them want to buy. And that's what the program is. It's a six week workshop, it will be turned into like a home study program so people can learn how to write bullets.

[00:44:59] I'll tell you what. You have bullets, virtually one of the people I learned from. I can't think of his name right now, but he taught me. What is it? Corey was one. Yeah, for sure. But there was another guy that back in the day was the copy coach, and I can't think of his name right now. But, but bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, I mean, you hardly. You'll hardly see in the thousands of sales letters and sales emails that I've written over the years things that don't have bullets.

[00:45:31] Because, yeah, you do a great job with bullets. I notice on your your show notes like the just the facts about yourself. So that's something that people want to read. They can scan it and read it really fast and get a sense of who you are. And that's what you want to do with your bullets. Get people reading them and to keep reading. You wanted to keep reading.

[00:45:51] And one of the formulas and not I mean, you may have a different method. That's not one way to do this, folks. But so for me, the bullet, the first part of the bullet is a feature. And then there's an ellipsis three dots or an em dash. It's called, but I can never remember how to make an em dash on the computer, so I just use three dots and then the benefit is the second part of the bullet.

[00:46:16] So that is exactly how I started. That's the first. That's the draft that I'm taking it to.

[00:46:25] You're cool because I'm like, I'm just a country bumpkin over here.

[00:46:29] But that is exactly how that's the blueprint for how you start. It is exactly right. A feature. Every feature should have a benefit. No matter what it is, you can pull something out of your butt. You got to figure something out. There's got to be a reason why. Yeah, and if you're

[00:46:42] If you're going to mess up, you want to mess up and leave the features off and just the you at least have the bullets if you're going to mess up this thing. So, so boy, it's been good catching up with you, kiddo.

[00:46:54] Yeah, you too. It has been a really long time. I mean, we've been all locked down, but even before that, I don't think I.

[00:47:02] Yeah, it's been. It's been a while. Yeah. And I didn't know you lived out in no man's land right now, but I just envy it so much because you can go out and shoot guns and ride horses, and it doesn't matter if the dogs are making noise.

[00:47:15] And yeah, so yeah, that's the Western dream.

[00:47:20] What a beautiful lifestyle for a beautiful lady and a brilliant lady, I might add. So. So OK, so redhotcopy.com will lead you to all your stuff. Is that right?

[00:47:34] That's where everything is. My newsletters there, I write to my people, I have a very close knit community. I'd love for your people to check me out. You can leave any time you don't have to stick around, but I share a lot of tips through my newsletter. Yeah, yeah, they're great.

[00:47:53] They're great stuff, folks. And she's one of the real deals, and I'm just so proud to know her. So, thanks so much for coming on, folks and check it out redhotcopy.com and we will catch everybody on the next episode. Do those features and benefits. You will thank her for telling you that.

[00:48:16] All right. Catch everybody on the next episode. See you later.

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