Fred Berns is a personal marketing coach who helps business professionals increase profits by promoting themselves more effectively. He's a copywriter and he's one that's made millions of dollars for people doing this. He creates website, social media and marketing copy for companies worldwide. He's the author of sales and marketing books, videos and other learning tools and he's a popular presenter who speaks at business events in general and interior design industry events in particular around the world.
NOTE: Complete transcript available at the bottom of the page.
Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 275
How To Automate Your Business – https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Higher Education Webinar – https://screwthecommute.com/webinars[03:36] Tom's introduction to Fred Berns [07:06] A niche can make you rich (You can't be all things to all people) [09:24] Starting out at journalism school [13:01] Getting through 9/11 [18:41] Fred's son Zach and multiple streams of income [21:33] Life post-retirement [23:44] Sponsor message [25:48] Getting his books
Higher Education Webinar – https://screwthecommute.com/webinars
Screw The Commute – https://screwthecommute.com/
Screw The Commute Podcast App – https://screwthecommute.com/app/
College Ripoff Quiz – https://imtcva.org/quiz
Know a young person for our Youth Episode Series? Send an email to Tom! – email@example.com
Have a Roku box? Find Tom's Public Speaking Channel there! – https://channelstore.roku.com/details/267358/the-public-speaking-channel
How To Automate Your Business – https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/
Internet Marketing Retreat and Joint Venture Program – https://greatinternetmarketingtraining.com/
Fred's Quote: “Tell me what only you do and I will buy only from you”
Via email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Sell Yourself! Book Preview (call or email Fred to order) – Click HERE for more book information!
Fred Berns with Zach and Tom as Santa
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Expense Cleanup – https://screwthecommute.com/274/
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Episode 275 – Fred Berns
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.
[00:00:24] Hey, everybody, it's Tom here with episode two hundred and seventy five of Screw the Commute podcast. We're here with Fred Berns, long longtime friend of mine and tremendous marketing coach. And if you want to see his cool haircut from the '90s and with me playing Santa Claus for his son. Make sure you check out the show notes for this episodes. I'm going to introduce Fred to you in a minute. Episode 274 was tricks of the trade in cleaning up worthless expenses, you know, and a lot of us have extra time sitting around during this pandemic. I thought I'm going to go clean up some worthless stuff and I got a lot of tricks of the trade to help you get rid of expenses. And when you get rid of expenses, you don't have to make as much money to be profitable. So that'll be a very helpful episode for you if you missed it. All right. How would you like to hear your own voice here on screw the commute? Well, if the show's helped you out at all in your business or giving you ideas to help you start a business, we want to hear about it. Check out screwthecommute.com and look for a little blue sidebar that says send a voicemail. Click on it. Talk into your phone or your computer and tell me how the show's helped you and put your website in there. And we'll give you a big shout out on a future show. Hope you didn't forget to grab a copy of our automation e-book. We sell it for 27 bucks, but I just can't push this on you hard enough. I mean, we're giving it to you and it has helped me handle up to one hundred and fifty thousand subscribers and forty thousand customers without pulling my hair out. And it helps me grab money from other competitors because I handle things lightning fast and this will do the same for you. So grab a copy at screwthecommute.com/automatefree. All right. So while you're over there, pick up a copy of our podcast app. It's really cool and will help you do cool things. So if somebody is calling you on the phone, the podcast will stop. And then when you hang up, it'll pick right up where you were. So grab a copy of that at screwthecommute.com/app. What's happening right now because everybody's home is work from home search term is going crazy on Google. Home schooling is picking up. They're selling home exercise equipment like crazy now. So that's a business you might want to get into. Our school teaches you these techniques. I've been preaching this since 1977. Excuse me. Now, that's when I've been in business since 1977. I've been preaching this Internet stuff since 1994 when I started selling on the Internet. Commercial Internet came around in 1994. And it's like an insurance policy for your family. So we teach all these skills at the only. And I want you to pay attention to that word only because I'm going to tell Fred about how he did something for me years and years ago. He doesn't even know about. So it's the only licensed and dedicated Internet marketing school in the country. So probably the world. All right. We'll get to that little later. That's at IMTCVA.org.
[00:03:38] So let's get to the main event. Fred Berns is here. He's a personal marketing coach who helps business professionals increase profits by promoting themselves more effectively. He's a copywriter and you know what? If you've been listening to this show, you know how important copywriting is. It's the number one skill in my entire career. And he's one that's made millions of dollars for people doing this. That's for sure. So he creates Web site, social media and marketing copy for companies worldwide. He's the author of sales and marketing books, videos and other learning tools. And he's a popular presenter who speaks at business events in general and interior design industry events in particular around the world. Fred, are you ready to screw? The commute? You've been screwing this commute for a long time like me.
[00:04:30] Yeah, I'm a lifelong home-based business.
[00:04:45] The reason I emphasize that word only because years and years ago when I was first starting, I heard you talk and you were talking about using, I think we called them superlatives. Only, the biggest, the best, the first. And I have been using those forever. Like I have the only licensed, dedicated Internet marketing school in the country. I have the largest email list in professional speaking. I got the only retreat center of its kind in the world, you know. So all of that came from you. And I want to publicly thank you for it right this moment.
[00:05:23] Well, I appreciate that Tom only is the million dollar word. And I always tell my audiences that to tell me what only you do and I will buy only from you. It's that important.
[00:05:35] And that's a good that's a good quote. We'll have we'll make that quote up on a graphic for you. Put it in your shirt. So.
[00:05:42] So tell everybody. Yeah. You're kinda live in the life, Alesia now, buddy. But you've built a lifestyle business over all these years. So tell me what you're doing now that will take you back in the see how you came up through the ranks.
[00:05:56] About a year ago Tom, I entered the next phase of my career, which is retirement, and I'm enjoying a lot this island. Years and years of working first in the journalism industry in Washington as a broadcast journalist. And then after that I wrote a book on how to sell yourself. And in the book is Sell Yourself Five Hundred and one ways to get them to buy from you. And I travel around the country promoting that book and talking about the importance of personal promotion. And then shortly thereafter, 9/11 occurred. And I lost a lot of speaking opportunities, as you I'm sure you did as well back in 2001. And at that point, I had to decide what one group was most loyal to me. That was by most of my products, that hiring most of the hiring me most often to coach and generally the were most receptive to me. And I realized it was Intuit as an industry. So thereafter, I pretty much niched to that industry and ended up speaking at conferences around the world, coaching designers from Dallas to Dubai, and really discovering that a niche can make you rich. Not that I am rich, but it certainly was a success path for me.
[00:07:08] Well, yeah. And was that a hard decision for you? Because I remember when I first started all the elders, you know, I started in the professional speaker on nineteen ninety one and all the elders were telling me you got a niche down.
[00:07:22] And I was like oh that's too bad, I can't do that. It's too boring to me. And so in my first five years I went to eighty seven different industries. It's hard because I'm a real stickler for for a pre-program research.
[00:07:37] I had spent months to figure out this, the Pennsylvania Dry Cleaning Association.
[00:07:44] And so as soon as I listened. Oh, yeah. I got my two before the head and picked a niche. Then everything changed. It got a lot easier.
[00:07:52] Well, the same thing happened to me, Tom. I realized that you can't be all things to all people, and I, too, is getting tired of reinventing myself for every different audience and in trying to learn about the issues so that I could personalize and customize my talks in my articles. Knowing the day you realize that once you pick a lane and stand and lean in is a lot easier to market yourself. It's lot easier to make an impact and a lot easier to become a well-known personality within the industry.
[00:08:25] Yeah, I tell people I said, you know, trust me, people don't tackle me for my autograph walking down the street. All right. But in some places they almost do. And that's the point. I'd like to get really known in one industry. And I know it's hard when you first start and you're trying to pay the bills.
[00:08:42] But boy, it sure, it sure changes everything, though. See, I got a second career idea for you already when I saw your heads. Your picture, you sent me. Where do you see this picture of this guy? Folks, this guy is like this same guy that would be on a TV commercial for Viagra or something. As well.
[00:09:02] As a matter of fact, that's what I said. That's my other source of income. Right now. He's working in Dubai agri industry.
[00:09:10] I don't know if you're kidding or not, but it's definitely nice that that's a joke.
[00:09:15] Yeah, well, yeah, it just looks like the perfect guy male model kind of guy. Except he's got brains to see.
[00:09:25] So take us back and tell us how you came up through the ranks. How did you get started? Did you ever have a job?
[00:09:32] Well, I. Start out. I went to journalism school at Northwestern University and after graduating university, Wisconsin, got into journalism, moved to Washington, D.C. during a sprint, I was working at a newspaper in Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Sentinel, and I went to Washington, D.C. on spring break and I went to the top of the national press building the 13th floor and knocked on every door I could find. I knew going down. And when I got to the 11th floor, I arrived at an office of Thompson Newspapers, which is international newspaper chain. At the same time, a gentleman was walking out the door and I learned that he had just been fired and I got hired to take his place. And so I went back to Milwaukee, quit my job, moved to Washington and became a News Corp. I worked for Thompson newspapers, ultimately sharing my news bureau called the Berns Bureau in a way where where I get to stay.
[00:10:28] Were you cold calling, knocking on doors and then or you just got lost and hit the wrong door?
[00:10:34] So you say, well, I figured if I was gonna be a journalist that I was going to be a news correspondent. What better place in Washington, D.C.? I had my Milwaukee fix. I was ready to move to the big show. So I figured I would start at the national press building and just see if there was any chance of getting a job. And now. Okay. It hurts me a lot, but I just I didn't get that opportunity when. When I arrived on the 11th floor at Thompson newspapers.
[00:11:01] Wow. Oh, good. Okay. So. So then what?
[00:11:07] So I worked for them for about a year, I think it was. And then got fired because they took a vacation and forgot to tell my boss I was gonna stay a couple extra weeks and came back and finally found myself without a job in Washington. Then I became a stringer for a bunch of radio stations and ultimately TV stations and newspaper itself.
[00:11:28] And that means what? What's a stringer?
[00:11:30] I was I was the Washington correspondent for Cover Wise and Radio and the Waukee. And every time there was a mayor of Milwaukee would come to testify at some hearing or every time there was a piece of legislation in effect in Milwaukee, I would be the guy would come on the air and do the story. Got about the effect on the local market. And I parlayed that into an entire news organization, and by the time I sold it to one of my correspondents in nineteen ninety five, we had served over thousand TV radio stations and newspapers around the world.
[00:12:04] Wow. I got out of Dodge and to write I got out of Dodge.
[00:12:10] I had begun doing getting going a class on pre-publicity, how to get noticed and quoted.
[00:12:18] How did you get. No. Quartered and promoted. The media was glad where I heard you could fit in.
[00:12:26] I enjoyed it a lot. I really enjoyed speaking. So I decided that I was going to try to become a speaker. I joined the National Speakers Association, moved to Colorado and in between. That was when 9/11 happened. I lost my livelihood and decided I was going to let you and your design industry. So I ended up once moving to Washington. What must move to Colorado? I was a speaker and copywriter and coach within the entire design industry and other industries as well in most interior design. From that point on.
[00:13:03] What what happened to help you get through 911?
[00:13:07] I had to do some soul searching, as I'm sure people are doing now, Rose. They are trying to figure out how to move ahead after the virus ends and that to really look licking my finances and decide where my main stream of income was coming from. And as I mentioned, I had spoken at a couple of interior design ministry functions and it seemed like my message was resonating the best within an industry. And I felt at that time that I couldn't go about doing business the old way, couldn't be a generalist anymore after 9/11. So many conventions had been canceled. So many conferences were cutting back that it really was. It behoove me to, as I say, pick a lane and get some focus for the first time of my career again. I figure that I had such a powerful message. After writing my book, Sell Yourself that I mean, who wouldn't hire me? But that that philosophy suddenly went down the drain after 9/11. And I realized that speakers who are a dime a dozen. And there was now much demand for it. And it was really important to get more focused and have a direction in my career.
[00:14:19] Now, when you pick this niche and maybe even to this day, would you say that you are a professional designer?
[00:14:29] No, not at all. Not at all. No, nothing here design. My what my wife does even let me in the fabric store. She's afraid of my drawing. But I was speaking about things that really resonated like. Like so many other artists. Interior designers are very called a record, truly talented at what they do, but they stink and running their business. Exactly. They don't have a clue about how to overcome price objections. They don't have a clue about how to market themselves or differentiate themselves or even create promotional copy. So I saw a real opportunity and I could have spoken probably I could have chosen another artistic niche just as well. Musicians or painters or others. But I happen to connect with interior designers and realize that there was a great opportunity because there was no one at the time doing what I was doing. So I really had an open field.
[00:15:20] Well, that's why I brought it up. That's why I brought it up to let people know you don't have to be an expert in the field that you pick as a niche. That's a fair statement, right?
[00:15:32] Very much so, I think, Tom, the key here, when you're deciding who to work for, who who did, what kind of client see is whereas the pain and what is the pain and can you solve it? I mean, I noticed a real pain point in the tourism industry and again, an inability for these people to sell themselves and to market their businesses. And I figured I could be the one to be the caregiver. Right. Could correct that pain. And as you say, I don't think you have to have an expertise in the industry as long as you have enough understanding and what the main pain points are. Because that's what sales is all about. And it's pinpointing the pain and promoting yourself as the one to help people overcome that pain.
[00:16:18] Yeah. And a perfect example of that for me was I got book that this giant real estate convention one time because somebody had seen me speak somewhere else, that I wasn't the keynote. There was 32 breakout sessions, 16 and more in the last thing than the evening. Some big New York Times best seller was the keynote. And I'm thinking, oh, man, I'm going to get lost in the shuffle here. I don't know a thing about this field. So I interviewed a bunch of real estate agents and then I wrote the title to my presentation. I found out that it was very frustrating being a real estate agent, using your own car and gas and insurance and basically learning about their industry, the pain points, just like you were talking about. And so I wrote the title How to Make the Sale when you just backed over the mailbox.
[00:17:04] And my session was packed. Nobody knew about me say so. So just taking the time to learn about the thing. But the point I wanted to drive home is you hear people all the time, while I don't know anything about it.
[00:17:18] I'm not an expert in that industry. It doesn't matter. You're an expert at what you do and you take it to that industry and give that to them and help them. And then you can be a superstar without knowing their industry.
[00:17:31] You know, what I always thought was the million dollar question was, what's your biggest challenge? Well, in your case, when you were speaking those real estate agents, I'm sure you would ask some kind of permutation that question. But when people are just starting out, especially if they can really become experts on the biggest challenges within an industry.
[00:17:53] They can write their own ticket. Exactly.
[00:17:57] Back in the day when you write articles as opposed to blogs and and do podcasts, we used to write articles in history publications. I would always try to do articles on the big some. Some challenged some major challenge, sales and marketing challenge facing interior designers or other professionals and kind of position myself and so on, who could give them some insights on how to overcome those challenges. And that really worked well for me.
[00:18:25] Absolutely. And to that end, today's atmosphere, all you have to do is reverse that and just go and read what they're talking about, get on their forums and just lurk and see what they're talking about and then develop a plan to jump in.
[00:18:39] So. Right. Yeah. So we've got plenty of opportunities now, though. You mentioned the word musician a while back or somebody that we know that's a musician, don't we?
[00:18:49] My son Zach, who first sitting on my knee as a Santa Claus and I don't know. You know what?
[00:18:58] When we love watching, he was 14 months old, but prior to live in Washington, he sat on your knee saying Santa Claus. And I think that inspired him to become who he is today.
[00:19:08] That's has to be as he's become a very successful drummer in Brooklyn and he's a member of a couple of bands, hip hop bands and R&B bands. And in addition to which, he's writing music, writing beats for a commercial organizations such as Yegor maester and others. Wow. That's the background thing. And he's teaching teaching at elementary schools throughout New York, teaching music as well. So he really picked up on this idea and having having knowing the importance of multiple streams of income.
[00:19:43] But once it doing now with being confined somewhat. So what can he say?
[00:19:49] He told Bond, but he is still writing beats and selling beats.
[00:19:53] My beats, I mean, yeah, the background rips it right.
[00:19:57] Companies use their commercials or singers or bands use for their online music. So it's a bit of a tough time for him as well. But at least he has different opportunities. I think that is such an important message for this is professionals today is to have not multiple streams of income that time. That's something you always were very good at. It seemed to me you always seem to have a lot of your juggling, a lot of balls at the same time. I thought that was really brilliant.
[00:20:29] When they're electronic balls, it's not that hard because if you drop one, it doesn't hurt so bad. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, I got, I don't know, 20 some books to my credit and yeah. Only two of them have ever been seen ink on a page.
[00:20:45] You know when we when we started there were a lot of people on the speaking industry who were just speakers. They just wanted to be speakers. And I can't imagine them succeeding in environments like this today. And if that's how you're doing and conferences are being canceled, left and right meetings are being rescheduled, they've been awfully tough way to pay your mortgage.
[00:21:10] Exactly. I mean, and I mean, some of them are getting a little, little bit a little tweaks here and there of online training as a substitute.
[00:21:19] But not it's just not the same, you know, as as a big event where you're talking. And, you know, you and I knew people at the bank were bankrupt after 9/11 when everything shut down. So because that's all they could do. So, yeah, multiple streams is for sure. So.
[00:21:36] So so what how do you spend your days nowadays?
[00:21:39] Well, I'm doing a little bit of volunteering. And I'm I'm very active. I do a lot of biking and hiking while also living in Colorado. That's a natural and skiing there kind of thing. So that's that's been big on my my agenda. My wife and I do a lot of travelling with one to Turkey and India and Nepal. And we're going to South America soon so that we feel very blessed to be able to do that. Getting involved with some causes with both political and otherwise, which I've never had time for before. But now I really am looking to really become important and look forward to that. Being an important part of my life is getting involved in political causes. It really speaks to me.
[00:22:27] That's that's awesome. But I heard you talk about skiing, and I'll tell you what I hate about skiing is, is when some little 3 year old kid stops to ask me if I'm okay.
[00:22:38] Yeah, well, it's great catching up with you, man.
[00:22:43] Do you think big on the horizon for you?
[00:22:45] Well, I mentioned a trip we're taking to South America. We're going to Chile, Argentina and Brazil.
[00:22:52] You know, going to Venezuela and was supposed to.
[00:22:55] To have left March 13th, obviously that didn't work. So we're going to take that in the fall so that that's that's coming up. We're looking forward to going to New York and travels allowed in August and for two reasons. Our son Zach has gone to some major gigs that we're going to see. And it was also going to be mob tour is going to Yankee Stadium.
[00:23:18] You see my Chicago White Sox play. I'm from Chicago.
[00:23:22] I always you know, when it's not sound, I've never been to Yankee Stadium. So that was something I was really looking forward to. Now, of course, that's all very uncertain.
[00:23:29] So don't know that to play out those here are your books still available on Amazon.
[00:23:34] So I think I'm the single source now for my book signing my book.
[00:23:38] But they're are available. They're available.
[00:23:41] I have them. Yeah. The people would have to contact me directly to do that.
[00:23:45] Yeah. So. So got to take a brief sponsor break and we'll come back.
[00:23:50] We'll tell them where to, where to get audio, where to get the books and if they got enough money to afford a guy like you agora salesman. Maybe you could give us some consulting's.
[00:24:02] So folks I really kinda made the internet marketing guru community mad back around the year 2000. People at my level were charging 50 or 100 grand upfront to help business people with this internet marketing stuff. And I thought, you know, I'm a small business advocate, that's too much money. And I knew a lot of these guys and they wouldn't even come through once you gave them the money. So. So I kind of turned the marketing word on its head by giving a small, relatively small entry fee and then taking a percentage of profits that was capped. So for me to get my big money, you had to make way bigger money. And people kind of love this. And seventeen hundred students later, which it's still going strong because they know I'm not going to disappear on them. And I pretty much live this lifestyle and have no interest in retiring from it. So check that out at greatInternetmarketingtraining.com if you want to really get serious about your online business and especially nowadays, hopefully you can see what I have been preaching since 1994 about the how important it is as like an insurance policy, your family and and with all the digital products, things are 97 percent gross profit. I mean, you got to try really hard them. It's 97 percent gross profit for things. So check out check out. The mentor program has tons of only features that I learned from Fred, whereas the only place that you could ever come in and spend an immersion weekend and actually live in the house with somebody like me. We have a big estate in Virginia Beach and lots of other unique features to the program. You can't get anywhere else. So check it out at greatInternetmarketingtraining.com.
[00:25:51] Let's get back to the main event. Fred Berns is here, a prolific marketer for many, many years. So, Fred, how did they get all your books? And so because a lot of the stuff is still totally valid.
[00:26:02] Yes. Sell the book. Sell yourself. Five hundred and one ways to get them to buy from you is. I called the lawyer Horan to teacher flute success manual because it's really about the power of the personal sale. The idea the can't do the best job of selling your stuff. Do you do the very best challenge selling yourself? This is where a lot of people, I think struggle because when they go off, they're told not to brag, not to be conceded not to talk about themselves. I feel like personal promotion is not about bragging, it's about educating your your potential customers as to your value and how you you're different from others. So it's it's really an important skill that we all need to master.
[00:26:44] Remember Kevin Roberts, who started NSA with I mean, claims you're cheating people if you don't know do stuff form. And I really feel that way because I know a lot of the people are rip offs that they would spend money with that I wouldn't I would take care of them if they gave me money. So so I don't have any problem telling him that.
[00:27:03] Yeah. So the book is I no longer make it available to commercial sources like Amazon. I haven't. And those people who want it can contact me directly and let me use my phone number, Tom. Best number to reach me here in Colorado is 303 589 3013. Or they can reach me by e-mail. It's Fred@FredBerns.com. And I can make the books available to them through those two channels.
[00:27:51] Great. Great. We'll have all that in the show notes so people don't have to wreck their car writing it down.
[00:27:57] So, by the way, Tom here, I wanted to know you were talking about your success with Internet marketing and then you always were the.
[00:28:03] Oh, you you as a pioneer. It seemed like the first line I was talking about this stuff back in the days we used fax machines.
[00:28:11] 1994 is when the commercial internet started out on it.
[00:28:16] I always I mean, I was never as skilled as I would have liked to have been in Internet marketing. But the one thing that really, really worked for me and help me build my business was blogging. Mm hmm. I had a blog called InteriorDesignBusiness.net, and it was a blog that went to a two to literally thousands of interior designers all over the world. And at one point I wrote a letter writing a blog post about the importance of interior designers raising their fees and tashima behind themselves. And about a week later, I got contacted by this gentleman in Dubai who said, you know, we're starting an association of interior designers here in the Middle East. Could you come and be the keynote speaker at our conference? Wow. And I did that year and then I did it the following year as well. So the point is, you never, ever know who's out there reading your blog posts. And I get so much business, both consulting and speaking and copywriting business just for my blog posts. It's really only marketing ever did the boy. It's something which really paid off big time for me.
[00:29:24] Exactly. And you're absolutely right. You just never know. I mean, the way when I got a big kick was somebody was reading my electronic magazine, you know, great speaking, has been around since the beginning. And they happened to be a columnist for the Miami Sun-Sentinel and they got a question about Internet stuff. And so they had been following my easings.
[00:29:46] So they called me up and gave me credit for the the answer that they put in their column in the Miami Sun-Sentinel, a PR group out of New Jersey was looking for an Internet guy who could speak to be a spokesperson for CBS Hundred grand contract.
[00:30:03] Easiest is money right in my my life.
[00:30:08] They they owned one of the biggest CBS owned one of the biggest Web sites at the time. Came with remember the name over. Now Main Street's online was their program. And so I was the chief spokesperson for that.
[00:30:21] Easy, easy, buddy. That was and that gave me a big cushion to buy this big estate down here. Yeah. So it's just you just put good stuff out there and you just never know who's gonna see it, that's for sure.
[00:30:35] And the important thing is you got to try this stuff. You got to try it out. I'm in charge of marketing. As you and I both know, Tom is throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what effect. What's next? But I believe in a Wayne Gretzky theory of marketing that it is a miss 100 percent of the shots you never take.
[00:30:50] Yes. There's way more shots to take, though, with all the social media. Now. Now. I mean, people are going on this crazy thing called Tick-Tock. Somebody said that Tommy me to get on tech talk. I'm thinking, oh, man, that sounds like so I'm on there. And an hour later I'm off because it's just as addicting stuck there. And, you know, all these outlets have potential customers for you, you know, but we teach people how to automate it quite a bit because, again, you can't possibly do it all by yourself. Now, there are so many new things. But the thing is, you've got to do it and find out what works for you. Increase that, decrease the other, and it can be extremely profitable. So. So, Fred, thanks a lot for coming on. Tell Zack I said hi. I'm still wiping my leg off, I think, where he peed on my Santa suit.
[00:31:40] I'll send you a picture of the new and improved version. Zach Berns 26 years later. And I got to say that it all began on your knee.
[00:31:50] Yeah something began on my knee. Hope he got over that. So tell your wife I said hi. And geez, thanks so much for catching up with us. Has been very inspiring for all these folks out there. Thanks.
[00:32:03] I've enjoyed it. Tom, thank you.
[00:32:04] All right. We'll catch everybody on the next episode. See you later.
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