Terri Marie has worked with Olympic athletes, like the U.S. Ski Team and top public figures like James Roosevelt. That's Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt's son. She's an award winning producer who has produced over 38 documentaries. Her ski movies have aired on network television, PBS, cable and giant screens at the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. She's featured in Success Magazine and wrote a column for The Orange County Register.
NOTE: Complete transcript available at the bottom of the page.
Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 026
American Entrepreneur Film – http://americanentrepreneurfilm.com/
Documentary 101 – http://www.Documentary101.com/
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Higher Education Webinar – It's the second webinar on the page: https://screwthecommute.com/webinars[01:37] Tom's introduction to Terri Marie [04:09] What Terri's been doing all these years [07:26] A regular 9 to 5 working as a bank teller [10:52] About the American Entrepreneur and documentary making [14:37] Tips on making products and driving the competition into the dirt [20:52] Best and worst things about working for yourself [24:48] Documentary 101 [27:58] There's gold in every person with a great story [29:32] Sponsor message [30:07] A typical day for Terri [33:27] Staying motivated when you're solo a lot of the time [35:08] Parting thoughts for us Screwballs
Higher Education Webinar – It's the second webinar on the page: https://screwthecommute.com/webinars
Screw The Commute – https://screwthecommute.com/
American Entrepreneur Film – http://americanentrepreneurfilm.com/
American Entrepreneur on Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanEntrepreneurFilm/
GreenLight Women – http://www.greenlightwomen.org/
Terri's YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/user/Whitewingfilms/
Terri's Facebook page – https://www.facebook.com/reelmountainfilms/
Documentary 101 – http://www.Documentary101.com/
Reel Mountain Pictures – http://www.reelmountainpictures.com/
Via email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Terri's books – https://www.amazon.com/Terri-Marie/e/B006XG1MUM
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Automate Your Business – https://screwthecommute.com/episodes/25-automate-your-business/
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Episode 026 – Terri Marie
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.
[00:00:27] Hey everybody it's Tom here with Episode 26 of screw the commute podcast. I hope you listen to Episode 25. It's called How to automate your business so you can get a handle on lots of customers without pulling your hair out. You can make more money and save a lot of money if you learn how to use automation tools so that's what episode 25 was about.
[00:00:52] Our sponsor is Americanentrepreneurfilm.com and I'm really proud to say that I am not a dead person talking to you. And why do I say that because typically I thought you had to be dead before they did a documentary about you. Apparently not like Mark Twain used to say the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated. So I'm here with you. But I'm really proud actually and honored that this film is celebrating American entrepreneurship. And I've been chosen by the lady that is going to be on today to be featured in this film.
[00:01:31] Now after I introduce her I'm going to tell you all what I made her do so let me tell you about Terri Marie. Terri has worked with the Olympic athletes like the U.S. Ski Team and top public figures like James Roosevelt. That's Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt's son. She's an award winning producer who has produced over thirty eight documentaries. Her ski movies have aired on network television PBS cable and giant screens at the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. She's also a writer. She's featured in Success Magazine and wrote a column for The Orange County Register. She won several awards for best self-help book for be the hero of your own game and your inner cheerleader.
[00:02:24] Terry are you ready to screw? The commute. I'm ready for that Tom. Am I the first person you've asked that today. No actually the second and the other one was the guy you know you know what he said he did have a good comeback. He said My wife's name isn't commute. Yeah that was a good bit yeah.
[00:02:50] So I'm going to tell everybody before I bring you on fully what I made you do. Terry came to me. I don't know how many years ago it was with this idea of doing the American entrepreneur she had met me at a memorial service years ago for Dotty Walters where I was speaking Dotty Walters was kind of a grandmother of professional speaking. I was speaking at her memorial service she used to call me her right coast son and Terry saw me there somehow followed me came up with this idea to do the American entrepreneur documentary So immediately my mind goes into you did 30 some documentaries.
[00:03:32] You need to do a how to. Forget about me I'm saying you've got to do a how to product on this. And so that's what I made her do while we were doing the American entrepreneur film. She has created this really great thing she's going to tell you about. So my mind just won't stop but you got to think about promotional tools and that's what my mind is always geared towards. When I saw this thing I said I'm going to milk this for all it's worth but I want her to be successful with other documentaries because these how to products are really great. So Terri telling them all what you've been doing all these years.
[00:04:12] Oh my gosh. All these years I did so many things but when I started my company and actually became an entrepreneur I was writing music. I was making films movies scripts have always come to me and I'm working on that as the next step. But the documentaries just seem to fall into place. They lined up. I do one somebody would say OK it's. I have the best topic you can do this or somebody is over here. Why don't you come and film this. And it just was like you took one step and the next step is there. And that's how I did those with the books. Actually it was speaking that got me into doing a book as well because I had done a qualifying speech for the Orange County Speakers Bureau and the director of that suggested that the rest of my topics would be in a book and when he said that to you know 50 people in the room. I had to write the book.
[00:05:16] So that's how you have to do what people tell you because I really can see I don't want to be a follower. It's a good idea. Then I follow the ideas that come to me because they are you know they've led me to amazing journeys.
[00:05:36] Didn't you do some type of exercise Show Way Way Back.
[00:05:41] Yes I did. Did you ever see one of those times. No I never got to see one. Oh my gosh you're like Denise Austin kind of girl.
[00:05:49] Well actually and I know this is funny but when I was doing a show called The Great body escape and I say that a long time ago you know you're not dead.
[00:06:04] Every life story I've done so far has been on a living person. When I was doing the exercise show somebody suggested I send it to one of the networks and it may have been lifetime but I sent it to. I think one of them one of my demo tapes. Here's what happened. I had a man and a woman helping me exercise and the woman's name. I better not say her name on air because she's got a really unique name. But she was really good looking. And the guys on the camera focused a lot on her and what she was doing. And I think the network kind of go I don't know. That's the kind of show we want to but it was fun. The great body escape was we did themes we did West Side Story we did a Christmas show Halloween night dressed up in different costumes and made exercise fun and that's the only way I wanted to do it and I did probably two dozen or so of those exercise shows it was I learned a lot. Being in front of the camera to take behind the camera where I'm mostly working now.
[00:07:17] Right being on both sides gives you a great perspective.
[00:07:21] It does. Absolutely. A lot of fun.
[00:07:23] Did you ever have a regular 9 to 5
[00:07:28] For a very short times in my life. I worked as a bank teller when I was in college right after high school.
[00:07:37] I wouldn't last five minutes of that I would be like here's 20 for you and 20 for me and I'd have it and I'd have a tip jar right there. I tried that it didn't go very well. What if you didn't balance perfectly you could take a few tips with them. Yes and you don't go home until you balance that.
[00:07:59] Yeah I never really thought so much about what I learned from that I did handle a lot of money. So that was good. I wish more of it would've stayed in my hands. And then I also worked in development for a year at a school that was raising money to build big film school and that got me a lot of experience working with top top business leaders and top industry professionals in the film business. So that was really a great experience. I mean you know you learn what it takes for people to donate a million or four billion or whatever.
[00:08:40] So you're pretty well respected in the Hollywood community. You're in some interesting groups right.
[00:08:47] Well I think there's a lot of people who are respected in Hollywood that I respect and that there's a lot that aren't right now. But I'm in Greenlight Women which is a new organization it's secret because we haven't really promoted it yet. And then when we do tell and put it in you know Variety and Hollywood Reporter and all of those things you know we've actually though it's a small group right now of really well established amazing women filmmakers and we're all there to help each other get our projects made. And it's unique that way. So I'm really excited about that because I think there's going to be some amazing things coming up from that we have some really good support in the background.
[00:09:43] Now you are aware that I don't want to brag. All right but I am up for a part in the remake of The Blob.
[00:09:53] I heard about that word gets around Hollywood you can't hide that. yeah it leaks like government. Yeah someone then women in film I helped different organizations see that out keep from going under. And so when I found out her husband had produced the original Blob movie I'm on my hands and knees saying oh I will milk that forever. If you can get me anything to say that I was in The Blob I said I'll be the blob. Just get me in there and so she owes that to me when they do the remake. So tell us a little bit about the American entrepreneur and I'll be here blushing the whole time and then tell people a little bit about making documentaries in this product that I made you put together which is freakin awesome. I mean it's amazing the detail she put in it. So tell me a little about the documentary and then your product.
[00:10:54] Ok that's a lot of questions. If I had to go off to the side you know just bring me back OK. As far as the American entrepreneur. Oh my gosh. Everyone who knows about Tom and has worked with him in any way knows that he would be like the key, the ultimate person to have on this documentary because he has helped. First of all, he's done it himself. He's had ups he's had downs he's had ups and UPS and UPS because he learned from the downs which all entrepreneurs have to do. And then he took that especially online which is kind of the focus of this particular film to help other people. And that's when you become successful yourself. You have the knowledge and skills. And then he also has the desire the good heart to help other people become successful if they listen to him and they have to do the work right.
[00:12:00] Yeah of course. But you know what I'm most proud about to tell you the truth is nothing to do with me. It has to do with the fact that you started it in Syria which was where my dad came at 3 years old on a cattle boat to the U.S. Ellis Island. His name is up there on the wall. He became an entrepreneur. He had his own electrical contracting firm at 13 years old. Shining shoes to buy information products from the American school to learn how to do it. And then he put the first electric light bulb in Carnegie Pennsylvania. So that's what I'm really so thrilled about is that he got some accolades out of this.
[00:12:43] Well in a way it was a tribute to Sam Antion as well because he sparked that interest in you. And he was such a good man. And in fact it was a challenge in the film to not put all of his principles in there we kind of blended them in through what we did. But Sam you know we wrote about I think it was nine or 10, Sam's Big Ten. I think that's what it was. I mean a little clip for you years ago that I was going on Sam because of his leadership principles that came from the eulogy I wrote for him.
[00:13:28] Anyone who has heard Tom speak knows that when he talks about his father gosh it just the whole talk goes to a different level and you can tell where Tom got his incredible drive and his desire to help people because Sam did that he just loved to have met that man would have loved you.
[00:13:53] Well you kind of did because he's sitting right here talking to you basically.
[00:13:57] Through you yes and through the photos you know that we went through all the photos to find the right ones to put in the film.
[00:14:03] So I'm just thrilled. I'm not sure when they'll be hearing this but we're doing a big online premiere and we'll have giveaways and make it a big hoopla so I'm really thrilled about that but tell people about it like I said I made kind of made you. I said if we're going to do this I can't sit back and watch somebody as talented as you not put together a how to product. So give them some tips on how they could put together things like this as promotional items that nobody else is going to have. You're going to just drive your competition into the dirt because they're not going to have something like this.
[00:14:39] Well part of what we put into this particular product is all those decades of experience because you know I did over 38 documentaries I did public service announcement infomercials. I was on the exercise show music videos I forgot about those trailers corporate videos. If it had a film or a video in the title I probably did something about it and there's so much that I gained from each one that I've done that people don't have to go through with the experience themselves. They can learn just the little concepts that I've come up with from each particular product but I call it trade secrets from an industry veteran documentary 101's video and film course and then I also have a playbook with it and this was Tom's suggestion. He said you know do you have any forms any releases. Any budgets things that you could show people samples and I've done tons of letters to get people to sponsor a project to sponsor a production and give you money. Money Yeah. And in one case I'm one of the ski films. I had someone's daughters doing the intro and I've got a five figure amount for the production for just that little opening. Another way we had sponsors of the people I was doing a project on and they also agreed to sponsor the projects. I got money from video boards and you need the money to do the projects. So you gotta start there. You can have an idea but you got to have it funded somehow.
[00:16:35] But the thing I think I bring to video and film that's maybe a little bit different. And I don't know if I'd call it woowoo but I think it's I'm able to connect with a person really well when I interview them. And that comes from the heart because I always say what comes from the heart goes to the heart and if you take that where you can ask a question and really get an insightful answer and bring out the person you get some much more on film than the average person gets. And I know also how to make them look Hollywood style without spending Hollywood budget and that is a huge help for people right now who are growing their businesses or want to put a message out there. So I think that you know there's a million tips I could share on anything from interviews to camera what colors to wear on film what things to avoid the mistakes I've made. So that just sometimes saying something about one mistake you've made can help somebody else avoid anything in that whole range of mistakes and I have certainly made some mistakes on things but I've also had a lot of success and that's what an entrepreneur does. You keep on going and realize that everything is for an ultimate result. Yes this course I think is going to really help a lot of people because they don't have to go to a film school and spend you know I don't know how many tens of thousands a year to go to a film school and then you don't have a guaranteed job when you get out.
[00:18:20] You're basically screwing the commute and making your own film out of it. Promotional material and you can even if it's not about you. We're looking at all kinds of ways to monetize this thinking about DVDs we're thinking about playing it in schools for entrepreneurial stuff for schools where you'll get more money for it and sponsorships and all that stuff.
[00:18:50] Well this lends itself the American entrepreneur film I'm talking about lends itself so wonderfully to high schools and universities colleges probably even trade schools because young people are looking for a way to make good in the world and showing them the route of the entrepreneur hasn't really been taught in schools. In the same depth that it could be. And this film I think will inspire them hearing not only you Tom but the other wonderful people that you have mentored tell about their stories. Tell us why they went into business for themselves and you know their stories.
[00:19:35] Yeah. I think one thing I learned from you when I went through your course was if you're doing this as other than a vanity project you want to think about before you do the film or do the idea of OK who might want this. Where might the revenue come from. Or is it just something that you're passionate about that nobody else on earth cares about. So it certainly can do that but if you're doing this as a business and you want to make money doing this then you really have to think about the business end of it.
[00:20:06] So absolutely and that's where you're really good at.
[00:20:10] Well that's kind of why I jumped in and I didn't want to step on toes but I knew that you were supreme at making documentaries but I thought you know what I'm not sure how great everybody is in Hollywood of marketing. I mean sure the super big places are but they're not doing documentaries they're doing feature films and they've got gazillion dollar budgets. So that's why I kind of want to be involved in this product is really going to help people not make mistakes and you could sit down come up with a concept and then Terri leads you step by step on how to turn it into something that's going to be on a screen and it's just wonderful. So what do you like best about working for yourself and what's the worst part.
[00:20:54] Oh lots of best things I think the ultimate best. Working for yourself is freedom for me anyway. That would be my number one because you get to decide what you're going to do. And then of course you have to figure out how you're going to get people to help you in money to do it and what it's going to look like but you get to make those choices not somebody else for you. So that would be the number one thing. And then of course you don't have to have a commute. I set my business actually up that way. I wanted to you know at the time I did set it up I wanted to make sure I could live anywhere.
[00:21:34] And you have every time I try to call you you're somewhere else. I'll tell you that Sedona is really something I'll tell you. You either live there or lived there I don't know what to call it now.
[00:21:49] I am there now. I'm talking to you right now.
[00:21:54] And for anybody listening to this I feel the cortexes yes I could feel him through this thing. Not the Scorpions though. That's actually where we filmed Tom's first interview was here in Sedona. That did it actually at the total 180 opposite of the year in December. It is June now and it's hotter than December but in December Tom's coming out for his interview in a short sleeved shirt. And I have a big wool sweater. As far as the worst thing about working for yourself I think that was. If people can't figure out how to deal with the being alone part of it when you start and I kind of isolated myself to do a lot of writing. So I created a whole lot of things by kind of being alone. In fact a lot of what this project turned out to be was here in Sedona. I think I learned and you have to learn balance and be around people because it inspires you to ever meet the connections you need to meet. You have to be out in the world to be a successful entrepreneur that I think is huge and that was something that I didn't do really well when I first started my business. I was making lots of films and that was getting me out. But the actual business part of it. Even though I have a business degree and an economics degree. That was a whole different thing.
[00:23:38] And see now the way I handled that's. See I really like being alone. Actually not technically alone because I always have animals around. And then I you know I go out do a speaking engagement get surrounded by people and pat on the back for a couple of days and I can retreat back to home.
[00:23:58] So you're recharged and rejuvenated.
[00:24:01] And so many people are surprised and I don't really know what all this stuff means but in the Myers Briggs I'm an ISTP and I think I stand for introverted people would say what you're crazy that can't be right. But you know I'm not the kind of person that's going to go to a party and talk about me all the time I'm going to listen and try to be involved. And I don't feel like I got to be the center of attention all the time but I do like the way I handle it as I'm alone a lot. But I've got my boy and girl over there. If somebody comes to the door you'll know it. Put it that way but they're being good right now. So what about this product. Where do they find this if they want to take a look at your documentary 101.
[00:24:50] That would be it documentary101.com and you can read all about it there and check out the benefits and see what would help you make your own films or even think about making your films. Because if you hadn't before. Only 9 percent of small business owners actually use video and we know that there's a billion viewers per day on videos being watched. This is probably a couple of months old statistics. The room is there for you to use that and really grow and if you don't know how I think I am pretty good at making it easier where you can just fill out a thing here.
[00:25:33] Here's what you start with here's where you start let's show you what you can do and you can take it as far a depth as you want. You can also find it searching a little bit harder because I have more on the site but that would be reelmountainpictures.com. So those are the places that you could find it and I just think so many people. There's so many videos out there and so many of them are mediocre to less than mediocre.
[00:26:13] I have a half hour production about this business. We created long ago just by shooting a whole bunch of stuff and then we got a film student to edit it together and it's brought in probably five million dollars. And I think I had three thousand dollars in the whole thing and that was all editing. The cameras nowadays I mean people were shooting TV shows on iPhones.
[00:26:38] Right. they do it for you. You don't have to do all the hard work. And they're so amazing.
[00:26:43] Yeah. So if you just shoot a lot of footage that's a good start. You know everything that you see shoot it and then you can you're bound to get tons of usable stuff. And then when you get Terri's course you learn how to put it together and you learn how to get even better shots and interviews with people. When she said I was kind of chuckle when she said about she interviews from the heart I've had a lot of interviews where I got heartburn because it was so bad the interviewer was so terrible.
[00:27:17] Well that can make you know you have to set the stage for doing an interview. If you're both relaxed and really connected with your message on each end. You come away with so much see I think I love to tell inspiring stories. That's my forte and life stories happen to be inspiring very inspiring for me including especially yours Tom.
[00:27:58] I think I dig for great stories and I think maybe I'm like an archaeologist or something like that because they're there. There's gold in every person with a great story and it's just finding it and bringing it including you. Everybody who's listening you have a great story or you wouldn't be listening to Tom because you obviously go to him to get more information about how to make your business better. And I love doing that in fact my first film I should find because I made it when I was a teenager probably 13 maybe. And I made it filming out in Wisconsin where I grew up out by lakes and water. And I had my little brother was a star I didn't have to pay him. That was my first film to put it to nice music and it was just like I liked doing this. So that's where I got my inspiration.
[00:29:01] And I want to tell everybody that we're planning on doing a much more in-depth interview with Terry as a special episode. Don't know exactly when we'll do that but keep your eye out for that. If you like this kind of stuff. She's got story after story after story we don't have time for today but we'll do a more in-depth just watch screwthecommute.com where we have the show notes. Again this is Episode 26. We'll have an update on when we do the longer interview. Now a brief break for our sponsor.
[00:29:36] Well. It's me or it's the American entrepreneur film. So that will be the Web site. Americanentrepreneurfilm.com and you'll have lots of interesting things there we also have a Facebook thing. We'll have a links in the show notes to the Facebook I'd love you to go see the trailer and leave a comment. Myself or Terri we'll be glad to respond to you personally. OK we're done with the sponsor. So Terri tell us what a typical day looks like for a superstar Hollywood producer like you. That's how you get up and you polish your diamonds.
[00:30:22] Every day seems to go and I do want to mention though on the trailer. I just want to give a shout out to A.J. He did such an amazing job. When you have a great team that works together like he did with Tom and I. It's just you give them something and they run with it it's just like running a marathon you turn over the torch and they got it.
[00:30:44] Do you think he would like to do an episode of screw the commute.
[00:30:48] I would bet. He's in Europe now right. Yes, he's filming in Europe and then taking a little vacation in my ancestor's land, Norway.
[00:31:00] And this is this young man we're talking about made a film himself and marketed it made a lot of money on it. And he's also going to come out a different type of course also.
[00:31:10] Back at it A.J. what is interesting about A.J. product is he's doing it on distribution and I'm doing it and making it actually the preproduction but you have to plan up front and do in production and then after production and so these actually go together very nicely. It's a nice nice combination. So a typical day for me. I like to have balance in my day. So I love to be able to be in a place where I can work intently but not for too long and then take a break take a walk take a hike take a swim and then come back to work. Here's the key to my success. I'll tell you it right now. I have green tea every morning and I sip it slowly and that starts off my day. You know I do a lot of planning strategizing and then you know there's times when I do a lot of work on the project itself whether it's editing or writing. They're just different phases of the production and I do go over that.
[00:32:19] And you have the pitch to.
[00:32:22] That's absolutely true. You always have several projects going. It seems like you're finishing one and there's another one that's coming into play and it's kind of like an air traffic controller. You know summer landings summer taking off and So that will be my idyllic work for a day and pretty much you do anything you darn well please say it that you want to make money. Yeah right. But you got to pick what I want to do.
[00:32:54] But I absolutely do choose my schedule for the most part and that allows me to thrive and my business to thrive and the people that I work with to thrive. That's the ideal thing. That balance.
[00:33:11] So my next question was How do you stay motivated by I guess, green tea.
[00:33:15] That's comfort.
[00:33:23] How do you stay motivated when you're spending a lot of this alone time and just have to create things out of nothing.
[00:33:29] Well I think I'd like to talk to people you know I like to watch movies you know good movies motivate me. You know I want to up the bar and I used to read a lot. I think that led to my writing books. But I would watch more movies and television has really gotten good right now I'm actually writing some TV pilots with another writer and having a ball just having a ball doing that. So that's I think you're doing something. I know we talked about don't just do what you love because if you start there without having the business side and the money side of it you can get crushed under the weight of love.
[00:34:14] Oh did you just say crushed under the weight of love.
[00:34:19] Yes I did. We got to make a poster out of that. I'm gonna make a meme out of that. crushed under the weight of love.
[00:34:30] OK see that's what happens when I talk to you, Tom. But I do believe that that's where I started from I started in the music business for part of it and the music business was changing when I started going into that another time but I was doing productions out of love and spending a lot of money on it without seeing where the money is coming back. And that was a mistake I made back then and done with that mistake. but don't you make that mistake either anybody out there. Because I want you to succeed at what you're doing.
[00:35:06] So you have any parting thoughts for all of our screwballs out there listening to this.
[00:35:10] If you can cut down on a daily commute. I'm all for that. You know let's keep the cars off the road save it for me if I want to go to the beach I would say I've been given so much amazing advice by the mentors that I've had and probably one thing that's kept me going is from our mutual mentor and friend Dotty Walters. She told me always she said never give up. In fact right before she passed she was laying down on her sofa in the family room where we used to meet and have our talks and a lot of coffee in the morning talks and she just was laying there sleeping and I was with her and she suddenly woke up and she looked at me and she goes. Never ever ever give up.
[00:36:04] She was channeling Winston Churchill as she read a biography either every day or every week or something. she knew everybody.
[00:36:14] Yeah because she read biographies like crazy what I tell everybody that she told me in 1991 was Tom you must become a product machine. Right. And that's so so so good advice.
[00:36:33] She didn't tell me that she told you that. But she's telling me through you. She did tell me. Never give up and that was just her mantra to me. And if you don't you'll get there I believe that because there will be times and in any thing you do on any film there comes a point where it's like we had a few challenges like that in this film you know to get through on some of the segments and the editing and it came out even better when we didn't give up something always will come through if you don't. So that would be my advice.
[00:37:08] So how do people reach you if they want to ask questions about your products or get an idea or have they want to reach you. What's the best way.
[00:37:17] Email would be just email@example.com.
[00:37:29] And we'll have that in the show notes.
[00:37:30] And they can also go to my Web sites my Web site the one we mentioned documentary101.com and Terri-Marie.com although you say don't do a dash. They can find me there.
[00:37:49] Thank you so much Terry. We're going to do that longer interview and have it available whenever we can get to it. Remember to visit Americanentrepreneurfilm.com. And then also check the show notes because we have a nice Facebook group and you can see the trailer over there. There's a lot of great people over there making a lot of nice comments and you'll get a lot of info by stopping at the Facebook group which will also have in the show notes. So thank you this has been episode 26 and we will catch you on the flip flop.
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