778 – Making software better one test at a time: Tom interviews Jay Aigner

Episode 778 – Jay Aigner
[00:00:08] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.

[00:00:24] Hey everybody, it's Tom here with episode 778 To Screw the Commute podcast. I'm here with Jay Aigner and this guy started a software testing company in his basement, and he also has a cool morning routine. We love to hear about those and including something I think this is a typo, but it's maditating instead of meditating, so I think that's a typo, but it is a cool thing. In fact, I went to Enom and tried to buy the domain meditating and it was already gone. So, um, and he's got lots of hobbies and I hope he's making them tax deductible. And plus, how many people on here do you know have been turned down by Uber? All right. You got to try to get turned on by Uber. So we'll get him to tell that story, too. So make sure you download a copy of my automation book. You will thank me. It's it'll save you. I mean, we actually estimated it saved me 8 million keystrokes over the years. Just one of the tips in there. And that's not exaggeration. We really tried to estimate it. And the the other thing, I want you to spend the money or spend in time with your customers and prospects and developing products and services, not fighting with your computer. So pick up a copy of that at screwthecommute.com/automatefree. Follow me at tiktok.com/@digitalmultimillionaire on TikToc. And also our podcast app is now in the App Store, but it's only for iOS Right now we're begging Libsyn to hurry up and get the Android version out, but it's not yet. So check that out.

[00:02:02] Let's get to the main event. Jay Aigner is CEO of JDAQA. And when I first heard about this guy, I thought, Man, he's got a question and answer software. What? What is that? I said, No, that's that's my naivete. It's a software testing agency. And with around $2 million in revenues, annual revenues and he's the father of five. He's an amateur astrophotographer, which I didn't know what that was either. A student pilot that's close to my heart, a hockey player and a podcast host. His podcast is called The First Customer, and he interviews successful founders about how they got their first customer. So, Jay, are you ready to screw? The commute?

[00:02:46] Yes. I am. What an introduction. Thank you, sir. Nice to be here, Tom.

[00:02:50] No problem, man. You're. You must be a pretty fertile guy. I hear you had your first kid at 19.

[00:03:00] I did. I call him my college experiment. Yeah, and number six is on the way, so. Oh, boy. Yeah, just. Just keep it going. I'm on a full football team. Well, the.

[00:03:11] Nice thing about it is I know since you got out of the dreaded job, you've been really spending all your time with your kids, which is just wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful.

[00:03:23] Yes. Some days it's wonderful. No, it's my kids don't know a world where I'm not, you know, more than or less than ten feet away from them. So it's it's a it's a good life, man.

[00:03:34] Yeah, absolutely. Now, so let's talk about we'll get to your first customer in a minute. But but you worked in the industry at a 9 to 5 for years and the question a lot on a lot of people's minds is listen to this show is how did you transition? Was it cold turkey? You just quit or you got fired or you saved up money to start a company? How did you make the transition from 9 to 5 to to start your business?

[00:04:04] Uh, I took the, the slightly easier path, I think, which was to start a consulting gig while I had my 9 to 5 job, which is kind of what I tell everybody who I talk to. I picked up some gigs on Upwork and that was kind of around the time I got turned down by Uber. I mean, my wife's a long term care nurse for pediatrics, which is like a horrifyingly sad job to go to every day. And I wanted to get her out of there. And so I was trying my best and was looking up any option to do that. Tried Uber, tried overnight stockboy at Walmart like trying to figure out how do I get more hours out of the day? And I stumbled across elance.com which is now Upwork and I started picking up side gigs using the experience I'd built up over the years and, you know, just kind of built it from there.

[00:04:48] So was it any conflict with the place you were working for, with you doing side hustles in that same field?

[00:04:57] I didn't ask. Yeah. I mean, you know, like.

[00:05:01] Might there have been.

[00:05:03] I don't think so. I mean, I did it. I did a lot before hours and after hours. There were times where I'd take phone calls on a break in the stairwell, you know, at work. But for the most part, you know, I really try to give my my full attention and time to my main job. But any time I could do in between, I would sneak in, you know, client engagements or answering email here and there. But, you know, as an employer now, you know, I wouldn't be upset if one of my people had a side hustle. As long as they're giving me the time that they're they're being paid for, you know, I'd be fine with that. Yeah.

[00:05:33] And I know you have like 60. Or are they actual employees? I saw you had a lot of Filipino access there, which we believe is the best place on earth to outsource to. But 100%. 100% agree. So are they contractors or employees or what?

[00:05:49] So I have three main hubs. We have the United States. We have co-located, co-located team down in Mexico. And then we have our off shore team in the Philippines. They're all everybody's W-9 contractors, very flexible. And as I'm sure you know, a lot of the big corporations pull people and train people from the Philippines. So if you can come over there with a good business offer, you can get some really good talent and treat them like human beings. If they don't get in the corporate jobs they have over there, they'll be happy to work for you. They're very loyal, very smart, very just just incredible people over there. So, yeah, we've got a really big contingent in the Philippines that we've built kind of organically. Had a project I was working, actually found a guy on Upwork to help me with the project. We had to we had to do 5000 test cases in a week for this health care marketplace in Iowa. We worked together nonstop pretty much every day for seven days straight and basically built the team out off of just meeting him. And since then, you know, like I said, we've grown to around 60 people. And a big contingent of that is our Philippines team.

[00:06:52] Yeah, we've we've done a lot of training on that, on how to hire and how to treat the people from the Philippines because there's cultural things that you have to understand. So, so we've got other episodes on that. So your first customer, how did you get your first customer? And it must have happened while you were working 9 to 5, right?

[00:07:13] Yep. It was it was through Upwork. It's funny that you asked me that and I don't have a direct answer on On Demand considering I have a podcast called The First Customer. Um, uh, it was one of a couple, you know, probably a couple different mobile apps. I was just doing some simple testing for them and they, they had a need found them on Upwork, kind of, you know, learned how to sell myself, which is a big thing that I think any business owner, uh, probably struggles with initially, but then starts to figure out. And then once I started to figure that out, you know, the customers started flowing. But yeah, the initial customers were just kind of based off my, my expertise in my background. They liked what I need, what I did. They had a need for it. I filled it. And you know, the rest is history.

[00:07:59] Yeah. So now what? What you do, I want to make sure people understand what you do. You you test software, you do what they call penetration testing and and so forth for other companies that have developed the software, right?

[00:08:16] Yes, sir. Yep, We are we do quality assurance as a service, which is basically, you know, a lot of product companies or SaaS companies or custom software development companies that make a bunch of products for other people. They don't want to deal with testing. They don't want to deal with having all the devices and figuring out which browsers should be on and how do we automate this stuff? And can can 50,000 users get on at the same time doing performance testing and oh my God, can people steal our data with with penetration testing? So we kind of fill that void and we do it in a scalable way, which is why people hire us honestly, because it's a very cyclical nature. Software development, you know, things are built, they're tested, they're deployed, and then there's a little bit of downtime. So the ability for companies to scale up and scale down, you know, not necessarily have to have a W-2 employee. Or a team of W-2 employees on staff all the time when they're not working, you know, 40 hours a week all the time is really advantageous to us and our customers.

[00:09:12] Yeah. Now, one thing that came up with me because I've worked for several celebrities, I can't name them, but but I hated every second of it and I won't do it anymore because the whole team around them didn't want to get exposed to what idiots they were and how they were ripping off the celebrity. And so they did everything possible to to stand in my way. And then they got the the the celebrity convinced that I'm a numb nuts. And then he started badmouthing me. So I'm like, this is not so it seems to me that you go in and start tearing up some people's software and stuff that these programmers could get very defensive. How do you how do you deal with that?

[00:09:56] What an amazing question. Um, it was a it was a stigma for years when I when I cut my teeth in the industry, it was very much a developer versus quality assurance tester guy like you would find a bug and people would be pissed off and they would be angry at you that you found a problem with their code. But as software has become every day for every person, people want to write good code, people want to write good products. And if if there's stuff that's broken out there and they're associated with it that looks bad on them and they realize that now. So over the past decade or two, um, people have come to appreciate and especially C level people whose name is on the product and you know, it's representing them. Um, you know, that's kind of communicated to those organizations that, Hey guys, these guys are here to help us. It's an audit of our software. They're going to be part of our team and make sure that everything that goes out doesn't explode in our customers hands and make us look like idiots. So we kind of help everybody make look, look, look good like we're the last line of defense for for software before it hits the customer's hands. So it's a great point. And we've we've slowly chipped away at that, you know, in the space over the last 10 to 20 years.

[00:11:04] All right. So what if you find out that the app is total garbage and should be thrown away, then what?

[00:11:13] Um, that's a great question. That's never really happened to us. Um.

[00:11:18] I'm sure you've seen different levels of quality. We've seen different levels.

[00:11:21] But, um, look, our job is to report all the issues we find. And, you know, it's, it's up to the product project development, C level people at those companies to determine what to do with those bugs and those issues. Right? Because we may come up with the list of a thousand issues and maybe ten of those are showstopper where you can't get you know, that should not be out in public. And those are the ones you attack first. So I think, you know, our job is to help identify what those are and help, you know, give some context and priority around those. So it shouldn't get out into production and be complete garbage. And, you know, luckily we've been able to be selected with a lot of our clients as we've gotten bigger and better. Um, so we don't run into that really anymore. Like we work with good companies that, that have a good idea. And you know, we've been very fortunate to kind of work with, with companies that put out good products.

[00:12:12] Okay, let's let's talk about this penetration testing. I mean, penetration testing is far more than just software. I mean, that term, you know, you know, getting in the front door of a big company is a penetration test. You know, some some foreign actor doing it. So so just because you see that the software itself is pretty much bulletproof, do you get into the social engineering part of it how some, you know, low level person is tricked to giving up their passwords, that kind of stuff?

[00:12:46] I don't. Our partners do, but I don't there's there's all sorts of phishing and scamming um, that can and does and will happen. We just deal with the software. But a lot of our partners like one of my good friends, Tyler, runs a cybersecurity organization like he has a complete programmer and how to train your employees to look for that stuff, what to do after it happens, kind of, you know, remediation steps to get back on track if it does happen. And, you know, so it's certainly in this in the, you know, the atmosphere of what we do. But it's not it's not what we focus on.

[00:13:20] Now, you have quite a few hobbies. You're really maximizing your life, which is the way I do. I just love that the one that caught me was AignerAstro.com, where there's these gorgeous pictures of the universe. I don't I mean, probably I people are trying to do that stuff now. Just make them up, you know? But is that just a pure hobby or are you turning it into money somehow?

[00:13:54] I've tried to monetize it to some degree, but I can. So so Astrophotography is an interesting. Yeah.

[00:14:04] What is first of all. Yeah.

[00:14:06] Yes. So so it is it could be as simple as taking a, you know, canon camera that you have in a drawer somewhere and taking it outside and shooting some long exposure to the sky and starting to get traces of the Milky Way. I mean, it's all it's up there. And that's how I started. I started the little smudge of the the screen was was Andromeda and my my little camera lens. And now I have a 115 millimeter Meade telescope that's like the size of a, you know, canon. And it's all fully computerized and automated and everything like that. So, um, it is, you know, in its purest sense, it's taking pictures of space that's super oversimplified, but, you know, you're taking pictures of gases and all sorts of stuff that's out in space that you need to do some really long exposures on even to pick those things up. And you need filters over those camera lenses to even pick up some of the gases that are out there in space. But then you combine all those things together to make a final image. You process those images with a bunch of different complicated software and then, you know, you're kind of done at that point. But I've built a community. I'm a I consider myself kind of a community builder. We have a thousand plus people in this friendly Cosmos Astrophotography group that I created because when I started the hobby, it was just a bunch of old, rich white dudes who, like, didn't want to help anybody.

[00:15:21] They didn't give a shit. They just like you ask questions, they act like you're an idiot. And like, I just didn't like that. I created a small group. It kind of grew over time. And like I said, now we've got, you know, most countries in the world represented in our group and we all kind of talk and share ideas and we have competitions together and we do all sorts of fun stuff. We meet up at dark sites and stuff like that. So to answer your original question, you can monetize. I mean, think about photography, right? Like you can monetize photography by selling prints or by training or by doing these other things. There's not necessarily a consulting aspect or a business aspect. You can maybe start a store selling equipment or selling software or something along those lines, but I personally have not. And I've tried. I've tried and I have not really been successful at monetizing that hobby. And the more I tried, the more it felt like work. And I can tell you the one thing, as soon as something feels like work, I'm out. It doesn't matter what. Even if it's work.

[00:16:11] It's like I'm What about a more passive, like just listing the photos that stock photography sites for pay?

[00:16:17] I've definitely thought about that. Um.

[00:16:21] I'm all about making your hobbies tax deductible and so let's giant telescope. I can only imagine how much it cost. And for me, there's no way I would pay something through the nose like that. I would start an inexpensive WordPress website. I'd list stuff for sale or affiliate stuff for sale, and then legitimately make my telescope tax deductible. That's a great idea. And I did. I did, actually. Did. Yeah.

[00:16:48] I did start a sole proprietorship around it just to try to kind of do the tax deductible thing. But I never kind of followed through with actually monetizing anything. I do get I do have some affiliate links through some some of the astrophotography websites out there. So when people go buy gear, you know, get some percentage of that. But it's you know, it's a it's a pretty small amount compared to what.

[00:17:07] Your tax advisor is. You can't take $1 million telescope and make $2 and say, well, it's deductible. But one of the hobbies that you have that's very dear to my heart is your. You're flying.

[00:17:21] Yes, sir.

[00:17:23] Yeah. So I have some unsolicited advice for you. What's that on flying? So these are the tips I tell all aspiring new pilots from my 2200 hours in the air. And as a part 135 charter pilot. Here they are. You might want to write them down.

[00:17:43] I've got a pen.

[00:17:43] Land on the line. Land on the center line so you don't flop all over the runway. Sideways and everything. So what that is teaching you is maximum control when it counts the most. So land on the center line, then. Love that. Make your passengers feel like they're in their living room. Smooth, everything smooth. Unless you're up there doing aerobatics or something, everything is as smooth as possible for the weather conditions so that it's just a wonderful experience for them. That's, you know, when I was when I landed, a lot of times they didn't know I hit the runway. It was just grease. They call it greasing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so that's the next one. So this this is one of the most important ones of all. Small, immediate corrections. Most pilots, they get off course and they get too far off course. So they turn real hard back towards the course, overshoot it, and go way off course again and then turn real sharp back and they just zigzag and run out of gas before they get across the street. So, so small, immediate corrections. And again, that goes with landing on the centerline. You're right on top of things every second. Right. The plane doesn't get away from you. And then the big thing is get your instrument rating. Your private pilot's not going to be worth much, but because you're going to get stuck places because you can't fly. Right. So keep going until you get your instrument rating. So that's my unsolicited advice on flying Love all of those.

[00:19:25] I think they're all great and I totally agree about every one of them. And the instrument is definitely on the radar for sure. If I had 70 hours in right now, so I've got all my stuff done, I've just got to take my written and my check. Right. I keep having these damn kids, though. They keep slowing me down.

[00:19:38] So take them with you. So if there was one extra one, it would be to pass your written test first before you ever go for another rating. Because the cockpit is the worst learning environment ever. Right? So before I took one lesson, I passed my private with like a 97, I think something like that. And so it saved tons of money of just going around in circles at 100 bucks an hour. I don't know what it is nowadays, but, uh, so for, you know, start studying for your instrument, like now, right? No, that makes sense. Like that. Yeah. So there we go. Now, let me see what else I wanted to talk to you about. So we're going to take a brief sponsor break. When we come back, you have a pretty rigid, I would say, morning routine that we everybody wants to know about, including the meditating. I love that, by the way. I wish you.

[00:20:36] Would have got that domain.

[00:20:36] I know somebody else thought of it, too. Uh, so folks, about 25 years ago or so, I kind of turned the Internet marketing guru world on its head, and the people at my level were charging 50 or 100 grand up front to to teach what they knew to small business people. And and I knew a lot of these people. You give them that much money up front, you'd never see them again. So I said, that's too risky. I'm a small business advocate. I'm going to just charge an entry fee to my program and I'm going to tie my success to your success. So for me to get my 50,000, you have to net 200,000. Well, 1800 students later, this program is still going strong. It's the longest running, most unique, most successful ever in the field of Internet and digital marketing. You get an immersion weekend in the great Internet Marketing Retreat Center here in Virginia Beach, the biggest state where you actually live in the house with me for an immersion weekend. We have a TV studio here where we teach you to shoot marketing videos and you also get a scholarship to my school, which is the only licensed, dedicated Internet marketing school in the country, which you can use yourself for extra training or gift to someone.

[00:21:50] And we had one one guy spend 80,000 bucks on his daughter's crappy education. She's working a crappy job and four months into the school, she's making $6,000 a month and quits her job and starts an agency. So it's very powerful in demand skills. It's not the four year indoctrination indoctrination camps that you just learn how to protest. That's all you do. And you come out and compete for jobs at Starbucks. Check it out at greatInternetMarketingTraining.com and it's all one on one. We don't there's no group stuff. We take care of you personally. I don't like group stuff where you get lumped in with people more advanced or less advanced. So check it out. All right.

[00:22:33] Let's get back to the main event. We got Jay Aigner here who started a $2 million a year company out of his garage or basement and is helping families all around the world that's working for him. So that's a great thing. Got a beautiful family that he spends time with. And tell us about your five for five meditation routine or whatever. Uh.

[00:23:00] I'm going to start calling it that.

[00:23:01] Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:02] Um, yeah. I mean, you hear the 5 a.m.. There's the book, whatever, the 5 a.m.. Whatever the hell, that 5 a.m. club. If there's some truth to it. I got up at 430 today and the amount of stuff that I get done, I got to get up before the gremlins get up. You know, all my kids start wandering down around 630, 7:00, and my day is just, you know, chaos from that point. So the only way I can get ahead of it is to get up early. I believe that, you know, working out or any sort of exercise is very much tied to mental health. You know, shed a bunch of weight, got back in shape after, you know, the fun Covid pounds got packed on. So, you know, waking up at 5 a.m., getting the workout in. I also believe full body stretch is really important. You know, flexibility. Mobility is really big since I like to be active and golf, hockey, all that sort of stuff. Um, meditation is a great way to put that. Uh, you know, I, you know, it's, it's sometimes cliche at this point to say that you meditate, but I am a meditator. I use the waking Up app with Sam Harris. It's a very specific, you know, type of meditation. But, um, talk about being mindful and just starting to notice the things during the day that are important and just kind of reset and be where your feet are, I think is a big thing.

[00:24:22] And then journaling is the, the five, five, five. Um, you know, I don't see a therapist and, you know, I've been at various points in my life just from different times and the feeling you get of, uh, telling somebody else all your problems. I kind of emulate that with journaling. I just get it out. Whatever's in your head, if you can't, if you can't get it out of your head, it's just bouncing around in there all day. So I really do think, um, you know, journaling is kind of the capstone of those five things I do every day. Really. You feel like you've done everything at that point. The day is much easier if I haven't done those things by the time 12:00 rolls around, I'm about to jump out of my skin because I know I haven't worked out and I'm not be able to fit it in. I'm not gonna be able to find 15, 20 minutes to meditate. I'm not gonna be able to find it. So it's just it's just getting up early and getting those things has been huge for me.

[00:25:12] All right, Now, what do you eat?

[00:25:15] Uh, I would love to say that I'm like Mr. Clean Eater. I try to be it's, you know, it comes in waves, but, uh, I track every single thing that I eat. I use the Loseit app on iOS, and for about 500 days straight, I've tracked everything I've shoved in my fat mouth, which has helped me recognize when I'm overeating. It tracks your weight. It tracks your your intake. So I can kind of my macros and my, you know, all those different things, you know, I'm pretty much on top of it. And I know when I'm not eating well, I mean, I feel like shit when I'm not eating well. But, you know, I eat, I try to eat three square meals. I do intermittent fasting as well. Um, you know, and try to work that around working out and stuff. But I eat relatively healthy, but you know, I've got a sweet tooth, so I'm not going to sit here and act like I don't have carbs and don't, you know, enjoy ice cream and all those sorts of things that I think some people would like you to believe that they never eat. But I really enjoy those things. So you got to you got to have fun at some point, Right? There you.

[00:26:15] Go. There you go. Well, I've had my share put it that way. So so so we do have another thing in common in that, you know, I have a documentary produced in Hollywood about my it's called The American Entrepreneur coming Out, hopefully in a couple of months. And it's about my dad coming from Syria on a cattle boat and turning me into an entrepreneur, or he was an entrepreneur who turned me into an entrepreneur. Then I've turned thousands of people into entrepreneurs. You have one about your family and time management, and I have one time management tip in my entire career. I want to get your opinion on it, but tell us about the documentary.

[00:26:54] Uh, what a teaser. I would love to. I'm dying to know what your time management tip is. Um, seemed seemingly random. I got a message on my website, actually my my business website, and I thought it was. I thought it was like spam or something, but it was, uh, you know, I don't think I can go into like, all the details yet, but basically, basically, you know, we've had the extreme honor of being included in this documentary. They've come and filmed the family. We were at a I just moved back to my house. We were in a rental house for six months while my entire house was being renovated. So I moved my family of seven about 20 minutes from here into a rental house for about six months, and we just got back. So they documented stuff at that house and at this house, and it's all about time and how you spend it. And, you know, um, we, I couldn't be more thankful for the, just the, the whole experience and my kids getting to be able to do it, my wife being involved. And it's like a fun thing for us to be able to be part of. So hopefully that'll be wrapping up and starting to be edited in the next couple months. But yeah, it's about, you know, uh, I guess different business owners and just different people. And the thought of the documentary is they could have interviewed experts that write the books, but they wanted to interview the people who were actually out there doing it. And, you know, it's people who are busy but still managing to get the most out of their day. So I just feel really lucky to be included in that. And what's what's your time management tip?

[00:28:15] I'm dining out. Hold on. Hold on. Is there a working title for it yet?

[00:28:18] I don't think.

[00:28:19] So. Okay.

[00:28:20] All right. Just called the documentary. Yeah. No, not really. I don't know what it is.

[00:28:24] Yeah, I have no idea. They didn't have time to work on that. No, they didn't have time. You're right. So I only have one time management tip. I mean, you know, I'm all for this kind of stuff, but, you know, every personality is different. I mean, I get more work done than before breakfast and most executives getting their whole career. So. So but I'm pretty all over the place. But my one time management tip that I that I've rarely ever, ever do not do is and here's the title for it. Half equals empty. Okay equals empty When my gas tank reads half. I immediately get gas because I never want to be in a hurry to go somewhere and be out of gas. Yeah, that's my. That's all. I like that. Half equals empty.

[00:29:19] And you live your life by that. Outside of the car, too? Yes.

[00:29:22] Half equals empty. Yep. Half equals.

[00:29:24] Empty. I like that. Especially if you're in an airplane. I would definitely be.

[00:29:27] Worried.

[00:29:27] About half.

[00:29:28] Did it have. Yeah. One of my biggest mistakes in my career that almost caused me to crash and burn on the Steelers practice field. I flew. I was flying out of Latrobe and I stopped for gas and I bought yeah, I did all kinds of crazy stuff, you know, I flew millions of feeder goldfish in the plane, you know, they're really heavy. I flew glass beads out of Corning, New York. I flew all kinds of stuff, but I was bringing glass beads somewhere. And then I landed at Latrobe Airport, which was famous for the Blue Angel Restaurant. And so I had lunch and I jumped back in the thing to go to my home base, which is only ten minutes away. And and guess what? The right fuel tank was empty. I mean, a lot of the planes we flew was old. And, you know, there was all kinds of crazy stuff with them. But but so I have a whole story about the the checklist saved me life, you know, over and over again. You know, flaps up, gear up, power up, you know, right foot, right engine, you know, all that kind of stuff that you'll you'll learn if you get your multi-engine thing. So almost crashed and burned there.

[00:30:44] Well luckily you.

[00:30:45] Didn't. Yeah, I flew I got around well on light twin engine aircraft. Here's another saying you might not have heard of is if an engine goes out, the other engine just flies you to the scene of the crash. So I barely got around, landed. The fire trucks are there and a damn fuel tank was empty. So. Oh, so so that was I ignored my checklist on that, that short ten minute flight. So throw that on your list too. Don't ever ignore the checklist.

[00:31:18] Manifesto is a great book. I don't know if you've read it or not, but it goes it goes over the importance of checklists.

[00:31:23] There you go. All right. Well, thanks for coming on. How they how do they get a hold of you?

[00:31:27] It's JDAQA.com. Find me on LinkedIn first customer Podcast.com. And yeah, I'm around, so definitely drop by.

[00:31:40] Beautiful. Thanks for coming on, man.

[00:31:42] Thanks for having me. Tom. You're awesome, man. Really appreciate it, buddy.

[00:31:44] All right, everybody, we will catch y'all in the next episode. See you later.