414 – She turned lemons into lemon drops: Tom interviews Kellen Fisher

Episode 414 – Kellen Fisher
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.

[00:00:24] Hey, everybody, it's Tom here with Episode 414 of Screw the Commute podcast. I'm here with Kellen Fisher. And what a great example of attitude this lady has. I mean, instead of crying and and woe is me saying about the pandemic, she used it to make a major shift in her life and started a new business. She screwed the commute. And and I was going to say every night for her is a three dog night, but I think it's five dogs now, from what I was reading. Maybe we'll have her to tell us about her work with dogs that are in a minute. All right. I hope you didn't miss Episode 413. Now, this is another great example of a person just perfect for this show. She she got fired four times in a row from four jobs in a row. She got fired and then she got Media Professional of the Year award. I don't know how you do that, but perfect for this show.

[00:01:33] Now, how would you like to hear your own voice here on Screw the Commute? Well, if the show's helped you out at all in your business or giving you ideas that help you start a business, we want to hear about it. Visit screwthecommute.com, look for a little blue sidebar that says send voicemail, click on it, talk into your phone or computer and tell us how the shows helped you. And hey, also put your website in there so you can get a big shout out on a future episode of Screw the Commute while you're over there. We got two great things for you. One is an automation ebook. These are the tools that I've used to handle up to one hundred and fifty thousand subscribers and 40000 customers without pulling my hair out. And we sell this book for twenty seven bucks. But it's yours free for listening to the show. So visit screwthecommute.com/automatefree and you'll see all these cheap and free and powerful tools that I've used over many years. And while you're over there, pick up a copy of our podcast app. It's screwthecommute.com/app.

[00:02:32] And you can put us on your cell phone and tablet and take us with you on the road. All right. I know everybody's still freaking out with the pandemic. You know, your kids are in school one day. Next day, they say no, they'll burst into flames if you send them to school. I don't know what to try to tell parents out there, but parents had to quit their jobs if they even had one. And there's a lot of pain and suffering out there. I get it. But I have been preaching for 23 years about this. I've been selling on the commercial Internet since it began in 1994. Twenty seven years ago. And I've been teaching it for 23 years. And myself and my students aren't suffering because of this pandemic. I mean, it's we're able to sell from our home and everybody's like kind of getting it now. Like, I've been preaching it for twenty three years. And now they say, oh, oh, I guess we can sell from home. I didn't realize. Yeah, yeah you can. So about thirteen years ago I formalized it in the in the only licensed dedicated Internet marketing school in the country, probably the world. IMTCVA.org. It's a distance learning school certified to operate by SCHEV, the State Council on Higher Education in Virginia. But you don't have to be in Virginia. If you can hear my voice and speak English, you can be in this school when a teacher is hard core skills that every business on earth needs. And I am so sick of these four year colleges and I'm a big education fanatic. But they're basically, you know, they would be in jail if they weren't colleges for the way they're ripping off students. I even have a quiz that shows the seven college rip offs and and basically you get out and learn how to protest and then you're competing for jobs at Starbucks. So, so very much against that. We have people making money a couple months into the school before they even graduate because these skills are in high demand. So check that out. And a little later, I'll tell you how you can get a scholarship to the school if you're in my mentor program.

[00:04:36] All right. Let's bring on the main event. Kellen Fisher spent more than 17 years as a commercial real estate broker. And finally, at the ripe young age of 55 and in the middle of a worldwide pandemic, she decided to follow her passion. She used covid to redefine herself. She started a company called Cards that Wow. And it's now grown into an international scope. Kellen, are you ready to screw? The commute?

[00:05:10] I am so ready to screw the commute.

[00:05:15] I've got to make that clear.

[00:05:17] I'll tell you what, but I'll tell you where you did get screwed, because I used to speak to real estate agents and and driving around in the car and use your own insurance, your own car and try that. You got lying customers. Oh, yeah. You're our only agent. Yeah. And keeping the kids sedated while you try to sell the parents. Oh my God. It's so frustrating job I did. The name of my speech was How to make the sale when you just backed over the mailbox.

[00:05:51] Yeah, because I knew they would relate to that.

[00:05:53] But anyway. So I'm so thrilled that you're on because a good friend of mine recommended you, Alain Burrese. He's been on a couple of times himself. But this attitude of turning in something that could have been, I mean, is really, really bad in the world into something very, very good is what you did. And and I want you to tell everybody about it.

[00:06:16] Oh, I'm happy, too. I like I said, like you said, I was a commercial real estate broker. Hated it. I hate I hated it from the day I started it. But it was a deathbed promise I made to my father in law who I loved and trusted was wonder why he's stuck at seventeen years. Yeah. So I did that then.

[00:06:37] So he wanted you to suffer for the rest of your life or what was his deathbed promise.

[00:06:42] I never heard that he wanted me, he wanted me to take over the business. Oh I see a family real estate.

[00:06:47] Got it.

[00:06:49] He knew that I could do it all right. I did. I did it very successfully. And then when he passed away, long story short, the business closed. And by that time, the only experience I had was real estate, real estate.

[00:07:02] So I can only find jobs in real estate. Right. So I became a managing broker for a commercial firm in town that I lived in. And, you know, it just no matter what I did, I wasn't happy. And in then fast forward to the pandemic and I'm you know, what am I going to do?

[00:07:23] You know, nobody's going to buy you right now.

[00:07:26] And I tried some other jobs, you know, nine to fives, and I'm just not a nine to five person. Yeah. You know, they're all you need to be out of the box. Think out of the box, friend. I've never been in the bar. I've been painting the box. So with that attitude, I you know, I joined a mastermind group that are still there, my some of my best friends right now. And we all try new things and video and, you know, all this new social media, to me it was nukes. I fought it all the way. Right. Right. And then I realized that OK, I don't need to drive to work. I don't need to drive to clients and show properties and I can do something that I love right from. Well, actually, the funny thing is, is I'm working in my closet right now because, yeah, in my everyone that interviews me loves that story. Yeah. Because I'm in a very small place because I want to be in the school district so my daughter can go to this really fabulous school and she's graduating work remotely, right.

[00:08:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I work from my closet. No, no, I'm talking about your daughter going to school remotely. They're starting next week. Oh well we'll see. Good.

[00:08:36] I hope she doesn't burst into flames like that.

[00:08:39] Yeah. No, no, she's a pretty strong, she's a strong girl and she's a senior and I do I my heart goes out to all the seniors because they've missed their proms. They've missed. Oh yeah. You know, the rite of passage. But you know, they're all strong, they're resilient and they, you know, they will survive. So but so I'm living in this tiny, tiny place and the closet was almost as big as the bedroom. So I just moved my office into the bedroom so that I could have privacy and not, you know, I could lock the dogs out if I need. Right. And yeah.

[00:09:10] And I just I learned, you know, a couple of people said to me, you know, you know, I sent I sent thank you cards. I've been doing that my whole life. Whenever I meet a client, whenever I sell something, somebody inspires me a hand, write a note. And I had handwritten a note to someone and they had said to me, why don't you should sell these? And I'm like, oh, gosh, no, they're too expensive because I can make each one.

[00:09:32] Yeah, yeah. This season or a hundred.

[00:09:36] It's a hundred times more work than the one. Right. So I, you know, I don't discount. And he just said, oh Kellen Kellen you're selling to the wrong audience. And he was right. Once I got a coach she helped me to find my avatar, my audience.

[00:09:52] Which is what? What's your audience?

[00:09:56] Oh well people that they don't put they don't hire people with bad handwriting would be one of them like me. No, no, no, no. Know the you know, the people that had handwriting.

[00:10:09] Hire me to write them and send them for them.

[00:10:10] That's what I mean. That's that's your target audience. Because if I wrote him a note, they'd like, who is this? What is this? I can't read any of it.

[00:10:19] Well, I think I would best define them as people that define value by. By or how they define they don't define value by cost, so it's somebody that will is OK to spend eight dollars on a card and know that it's going to make an impact to their client, a lasting impact.

[00:10:40] That's that's all because I saw this thing. You I don't know if it was your sister or your sister in law. You sent something to two young people get married or they I saw a picture of it somewhere when I was looking.

[00:10:53] Oh, OK. That's my I knew that was my new line of frame brand. Yeah. Yeah. And so and then I branched out and I did wedding announcements or engagement announcements. Now those those are the eight by eights are one hundred and twenty five.

[00:11:06] Yeah. Yeah. I was saying eight bucks for that. Yeah. Yeah. The single cards.

[00:11:10] Ok, I want, I want to make them attainable but I do need to be, you know, compensated for the amount of time and effort, love, blood, sweat tears that goes into each card.

[00:11:22] Yeah. And, and I'll tell you what, I think I mentioned this when I first talked to you before this podcast is that I won't even open one of those, send out company, send out cards. Oh, it's a company probably making money and everything. But if somebody sends me one of those, I don't even open it because I can't say to me it's a fake.

[00:11:43] Personal car, you know, it's not personal at all. Yes, it's personalized, but not personal.

[00:11:50] Yeah, but fake handwriting font, it all lines up perfectly. That's not personal. When you're on the computer, you bother to send me an email. I've been I've been just as happy.

[00:12:01] Well, that's why I went that's why I started making the frame branded framed art, because I've taken you know, if you think about it, your logo is you've put the most love, enthusiasm, passion into creating your brand.

[00:12:16] And what better gift to give your client is their brand framed as art. They hang it up in their office or wherever, and they see it every day. And you're top of mind every single day in a very genuine and sincere way. Yeah, that's what I love about it.

[00:12:31] Yeah, it's great. And I kind of cracked up when I was looking at your bio, though. I've never heard anybody that graduated like 3-D or something.

[00:12:42] I know what it was, that it was basically sculpture I've never done, which I've never done in my life other than in school. And I, I paint I.

[00:12:54] You know, I can draw and you know, what I didn't tell you is that I, I don't know if I told you that when I was doing the real estate job, I had to do something creative. So I started volunteering and teaching art to the public schools K through five.

[00:13:08] I saw that. And how does that work? Because I didn't know volunteers could actually teach.

[00:13:15] Well, they can teach art when the art is cut out of their program. And, you know, they didn't just let me in like, hey, Jose, you know, I had a degree, you know, I had to get fingerprinted. I had just to make sure I'm not some kind of weirdo.

[00:13:29] Right. Right. I am. But not right. Different type of word. Yeah. Everybody, listen to this show is a weirdo. So.

[00:13:37] So now. Yeah. So I taught the K through five and I did it for 13 years.

[00:13:44] I mean I loved it and when and then I moved to the Bay Area and I got, I got I guess accepted or was given approval to teach in Oakland, one of the public schools and then covid hit. So I had to you know, I had to put that on pause.

[00:13:59] Any of those kids to get back, any of those kids ever go on to anything professional in art or anything like that? You know?

[00:14:08] Not that I know of, probably. Do I do get messages from parents still. And one of my one of my kids, he's a senior.

[00:14:16] He's going to he's going to Harvard. And they were on a camping trip. Maybe I dunno if it was it was probably two years ago or, you know, just before the pandemic hit. And they were all sitting around the campfire and they were talking about art. And his mom couldn't remember the name of what, you know, who this artist was. And his name is Bryce. And he goes, oh, mom, that's Picasso.

[00:14:36] And so she sent me a message saying he wouldn't know that if it weren't for you, you know, thank you so much. Oh, man.

[00:14:43] Into his world. And I've gotten messages and, you know, from tons of parents that, you know, they loved what their, you know, a side of their child that they had never seen before. So that makes me really happy.

[00:14:54] Yes. That's that's really, really nice. But the how did you find time to be a real estate broker, teach school and still rescue a little furphies, little little dogs?

[00:15:06] Well, the puppies came a little bit towards the end. They came closer towards the end of my my real estate career. We'll say we'll call it I. My daughter wanted a dog and I made her I made her wait three years. And finally she proved to me that, you know, I thought she could take care of it. And I said, What kind of dog do you want? She goes, I want to pug. And I'm like, Oh, what a pug.

[00:15:30] And I said, But I'm a cat person. She goes, I want to pug. And she you know, she worked hard and she saved you know, she was you know, we were going to buy one. And I thought, no, I wanted to rescue one. Right. Right. About a puppy that was a PBP, which is a poorly bred pug. And they were going to just take him to the to the pound. And I said, no, no, no, I will take him. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, we'll take him. And they actually charged me two hundred dollars to take the one they were going to give away, the one they were going to give to the pound.

[00:16:03] I don't care. You know, his name is Rocco. He is. He just turned nine this year. Wow. And I just fell in love with him and his personality. And then the next thing you know, I started a pug group and we started having pug races. And then I started the family, my foundation.

[00:16:18] What happened to your daughter at this point? She say she wanted another pug. So we see taken care of.

[00:16:26] She was with my mom at Petco and they found the next pug Daisy, which is the namesake of my rescue. And they said, oh, mom, I have to have this dog. And I'm like, no, no, we have a pug. She goes, no, this one needs help. And they put me on video. And I saw her face with her with her other underbite. I think it was an underbite.

[00:16:48] And I just fell in love with her. And so I ran home. And then we had to do an interview for this pug. Mm hmm. So we came to the house and I got down on my hands and knees and she she ran up to me, licked my face and peed on my dining room table. And I thought, that's it. You've got to have, you know.

[00:17:06] Yeah, I did that at somebody's house once and it didn't go as well. Oh, my God. You weren't wearing your little doggy diaper. No, I wasn't. Yeah, I sort of thought of that.

[00:17:16] But but but those you have to change license plates regularly.

[00:17:21] Oh, no, we get well I. So then Daisy passed away.

[00:17:24] She had a she had a cancer, lymphoma, cancer. And then I had two pugs No.8.

[00:17:33] No, I lose track after a while and I was back to one, but then the Oakland animal shelter heard about how I helped pugs, they said, hey, we got two pugs here. We got Pavo break out. I don't want them here because they won't survive. So I took those two pugs and that's Gus and Loreta. And so then I was a three pug mom. But then Loreta just passed away in October and I was back to being a two pug mom. And my daughter shows up one afternoon with a little black pug Max. So, yeah, I'm three pug mom again.

[00:18:04] So your license plate is secure that right? The fact is, yeah. You have to keep that that or if it goes much higher, you have to get another car. So that's your.

[00:18:15] Yeah. So I wouldn't change the plate. I would get another car. Yeah. Well I'll need it to carry the.

[00:18:20] Exactly. Now I'm trying to picture Pug. What's the difference between a pug and a boxer. Is that like a stupid question of the earth?

[00:18:28] No it's not. And you know what? None of my pugs are purebreds, I think, except for Matt or except for Gus. And Max does have a boxer looking face. I don't think there is smooshed in as the pug.

[00:18:40] So the pug is kind of the middle between the boxer in the bulldog, so is isn't this considered, though, in the big scheme of things, somebody shouldn't have done this in the first place?

[00:18:50] Because breathing and I've heard that they've changed the breeding.

[00:18:55] Mm hmm. And which is why I'll never pay for a pot because I don't stand for that. So I will rescue them and ride the rest of their lives, be happy, healthy and safe. But no, I would never pay a breeder for a pug.

[00:19:08] Yeah. Now we we've rescued lots of Bichon Frises. And when I originally got my retreat center, you know, we needed to be hypoallergenic because the guests come in and they're allergic to dog and stuff. So we had so I rescued a bunch and one time I threw we have this on video somewhere where I have a website called IAmNotaPoodle.com, because because everybody says, oh, what a cute poodle you have. And then the the dogs get in there like we had to get a doggie psychiatrist because the dogs get in the complex and everything is so, so anyway that the place that rescued them is the most selfless. I mean, rescue people can be a little crazy fanatic sometimes, but but they're selfless. They are you know, they care about the animals. And and so this lady has 17, the most you're allowed to have in the state of Virginia. So her retired husband and she's a, you know, a part time librarian, you know, they rake in the bucks. So she's taken 17 of the we've got a couple of them from her. So I decided to do a fundraiser for so I threw a Attala class and then I, I kind of auction myself off for consultations and stuff. And and so we raised 24000.

[00:20:29] So we're I got this on video where she thinks we're showing up with about one hundred bucks, you know, help her out with dog food and stuff. But twenty four thousand dollars if she about had a heart attack, we'll have to rescue her pets. So, yeah, but I haven't kept up the site much, but it's still up there. I am not a poodle dog.

[00:20:52] It's amazing. My rocko is so neurotic that you know how people have service animals.

[00:21:00] Yes, well, I'm his service person. I oh, you wear a vest yourself.

[00:21:06] That's pretty funny. Yeah. Now that's the kind of a sore subject because so many people have abuse that the airlines are cracking down. Yeah. You know, you know, but they have like I think the you can have a miniature horse as a service. Yeah. On a plane.

[00:21:24] You know, I used to work at a bank and the two service animals that were allowed in the bank were the guide dogs in a service pony.

[00:21:34] So anyway, let's get back to the company. So the company has only been running for a short period of time, right?

[00:21:40] Yeah, November is when I officially started.

[00:21:42] But it's got a lot of publicity.

[00:21:45] I mean, you say, yeah, I've been learning the whole social media.

[00:21:49] You know, I you know, I have presence in all social media and it's been like an effort of love because I finally had to hire a virtual assistant to take care of all the postings. So because I was just I couldn't take care of it all. I mean, you need a person full time just to take care.

[00:22:06] Yeah. And a new thing comes along like tick tock came along out of nowhere and then little clubhouse clubhouse came along out of nowhere, you know. So but my my concern about your business and I wonder if you have thought about this because you're so new at it, is how would you possibly scale this to, you know, if you got one hundred orders tomorrow, how would you possibly do?

[00:22:29] Listen, I've got an order for 700. Oh.

[00:22:33] Well, you had to do them all yourself. All right, yeah. All right. What if you broke your hand?

[00:22:39] That's a good point. Yeah, I've insured my hands.

[00:22:42] Right. That's a good idea. So you put the put the brush in your mouth or something?

[00:22:47] Yeah, well, no, it's I have a dye cutting machine that cuts out all of most of the shapes. And then I just started doing hand painting on some of the designs. It depends what the client.

[00:22:56] Oh, I thought that's what the bulk of it was, was hand painting.

[00:22:59] Oh no, no. They're all dye cut, glitter paper and belt and other embellishments.

[00:23:04] So you could teach somebody to under your supervision to do that. Oh, OK. All right. That's different.

[00:23:10] I thought all of these were hand painted like and I've already I've already grown to the point I had to buy another machine and another computer. So I've got to have a run running at a time.

[00:23:19] All in your closet there. Yeah, boy, in my closet. And my daughter has offered to help me, so I do have a little bit to see there.

[00:23:27] She's she's she's graduating high school this year and she's getting ready to go play basketball. Wooster University in Ohio.

[00:23:34] Wow. Is it open?

[00:23:36] I mean, so far we're going to. Yeah, so far we're going to go visit over spring break and meet the coach and just check it out.

[00:23:43] Awesome. Well, we got to take a brief sponsor break. But when we come back, we're going to ask Kevin, what's a typical day look like for her in her new fledgling business that's going crazy and how she stays motivated. So, folks, about about twenty three years ago, I kind of turned the Internet marketing guru world on its head. And the people at my level were charging like 50 or 100 grand up front to teach what they knew to small business people. And I knew a lot of these people. You gave me fifty grand up front. You'd never see him again. And so I thought, you know, that's not fair, is too risky for small business to put out that kind of money. So I said, I'm going to fix this. So I kind of turned it upside down and kind of made them all mad because I charged like ten percent of the, you know, as an entry fee. And then I tied my success to your success. So for me to get my 50 grand, you had to net two hundred grand. Well, people love this. And seventeen hundred students later in twenty three years later, still going strong because they knew I wouldn't disappear on them. And it's basically the longest running, most unique, most successful mentor program in the field of Internet and digital marketing ever. And I have no trouble saying that because I've dared people for years to put their program up against my line for line and nobody will do it because I blow them away. Or is this one on one with me and my whole staff will help you. You're not lumped in with people more advanced or less advanced than you. You have an immersion weekend at the great Internet Marketing Retreat Center, the only facility of its kind in the world where you actually live in a state home.

[00:25:28] With me to watch all this happen, we have a TV studio here where we shoot marketing videos for you and edit them, put the graphics, send them to you, and you get a scholarship to my school, which you can either use yourself or gift to somebody.

[00:25:44] And we had one guy spend eighty thousand bucks on his four year college for his daughter and she got a crappy education and ended up with a crappy job. He gave her this scholarship and four months into it, she's making six thousand dollars a month as a side hustle. So this is powerful things that are actually in demand in the marketplace. You're not going to be competing for jobs at Starbucks after so. So anyway, check it out at greatInternetmarketingtraining.com and give me a call. I'm very accessible and I can lay it out for you what life would be like for you online. And it's not just for your young kids. If you have a business already, you're probably overpaying by sometimes a hundred times what things should cost, because the people selling these services know that you don't know any better. So we can save you a fortune and give you a much bigger web presence if you knew what you were doing. All right. So check that out.

[00:26:49] All right. Let's get back to the main event. We're here with Kellen Fisher, who turned the proverbial lemons into lemonade with the pandemic.

[00:26:57] She finally got rid of the the thing that she hated and she's doing the thing that she loves. So, Kellen, what's a typical day look like for you and this new business?

[00:27:08] Well, there is no real typical day. I am a creative and I am living it to the fullest. So some days I wake up at five and first thing I do is I take the Pugs out for a while, OK, because they take even each of them out separately. Oh really? Yeah. So I get a little extra exercise and they get a little extra momentum. OK then I, you know, obviously have breakfast. All that stuff, but then I sit down and the night before I planned out the day, so if I'm creating designs, I do that in the morning because my brain is fresh and then I'll have, you know, a block out some time to answer emails, you know, take care of that side of the business. I, I don't do cold calls or anything. What I do is I, I find people I've been using LinkedIn a lot and I find people that I think would love my product and I make samples for them and I send them to him. Then I make a note to follow up in two weeks. So some day, you know, so I usually have a follow up day during the week for that. And then I take Thursdays off because I found that I was working and working and working and I got creative blocks and it was it was really causing me problems. So I take Thursdays off because.

[00:28:29] If I want to go to Costco, it's not busy and, you know, it's just a good day, it's not a French area.

[00:28:37] No, no, because I went to to the Louvre in Paris on a Tuesday and it was closed.

[00:28:47] And I'm thinking, who closes on a Tuesday? I see. My gosh, that would be so disappointing. I was so mad. I went down to the French Riviera and ate at McDonald's, just like you to go back on Thursday.

[00:29:03] And then throughout the day, I just kind of I have I have a calendar thing that schedules all my appointments. I do have two shows that are on Tuesdays at 8:00 in the morning Pacific Time. And then that one's called Ignite Your Wow. And I interview people that make me laugh and we learn how they found their passions and are living their lives.

[00:29:23] And then on one, of course, you're going to have me on there or just have to be.

[00:29:27] I know. I thought about that after a while. You were doing your break. I'm like, oh, my God, you know, I mean, people I would make mad if I had you on my show.

[00:29:35] Why why would you take it?

[00:29:37] Because there's a lot of, like, coaches. And so you'd be spilling the secrets.

[00:29:41] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not in the best favor in some of these because of the value that I get. It just blows people away because I'm a fanatic, you know, I'm just great.

[00:29:51] You know, you're totally honest. I'm sucking things like, OK, down here.

[00:29:56] And then my I have another show called Candidly Speaking with Shel and Kel. And we're just two good friends that we met during the pandemic and decided we wanted to have a talk show. And there's you know, it's called Unscripted Girl Talk with a purpose. And we usually end up talking about makeup. And and the guys that are on the show have given us more tips than the women on makeup.

[00:30:18] Yeah. And Moisturisers. And I wouldn't be me.

[00:30:24] Of course, we had Clancy Clark on the other day and he was talking about some soap that you can use it to clean your saddles and wash your face.

[00:30:33] It's good to know, you know, if you have a leathery complexion.

[00:30:38] Yeah. So and then I'm also writing a book and I'm about halfway done with it.

[00:30:43] And I do that in the evenings. I shut down and I'm getting that done because it's going to be done by the end of this month. So I'm really excited about that.

[00:30:51] You know, what I'm worried about, though, is is no, not I'm worried about the Pugs because what I mean, literally, I'm not even being funny when your daughter disappears off the face of the earth. Well, how are they going to react?

[00:31:10] Oh, do do not worry when she goes completely bonded with me. Oh, OK.

[00:31:15] All three of them. All right. They won't even miss her. No, she's OK because she did start this the other day asking if we could have a ferret. I'm like, what?

[00:31:30] No, no, no more animals. I'm already taking care of three. OK. So my day, you know, some days I. I wake up at 2:00 in the morning and. All right, if I come up with a design, I'll design. I mean, I'm kind of on 24/7. It just depends on my mood and the creative spark that I have.

[00:31:48] Yeah. OK, so, so but working on you're by yourself, how do you stay motivated.

[00:31:54] Oh that's easy. It's my daughter because I you know, the book I'm writing is about my relationships, how they were toxic, narcissistic. And I decided one day while I was cleaning in a bathtub crying that no, this is not an example for my daughter to follow and I'm going to break this cycle of abuse and, you know, just self loathing. And so everything I've done has been well for me, but mainly to set a good example for her so she can see that she can be a strong, independent woman that doesn't necessarily have to be have a man to be successful or to take care of her. So that's that's my motivation.

[00:32:38] Yeah. I saw somewhere that man is not a plan.

[00:32:42] You know, I give her this I gave her this analogy that a lot of people have really they've laughed at. But it's true. I tell her, you know, Emberg, you and I are chocolate cupcakes.

[00:32:51] What do you call her? M Bug.

[00:32:53] Yeah, she's my I'm like, no, her lovebug.

[00:32:56] Ok, I said, we are chocolate cupcakes because we both love chocolate. I said all by ourselves, we are sweet, tasty, desirable, and we can stand on our own. I said, when you find the man of your dreams who's going to enhance you, not support you, but to enhance you, he's the frosting. And that just makes the cupcake that much better. I said, so you need to be looking for frosting, not someone to support you.

[00:33:21] Wow. Well, a great, great example you're setting for, that's for sure. So thanks so much for coming on and, you know, it should be a lot of a lot of people out there probably doing things that they hate and and just feel that that's the only way to go. But you turn back to your 3D passion and they're making it work.

[00:33:42] I turn my lemon into a lemon drop.

[00:33:45] Ok, that's even better to eliminate. So so thanks so much for coming on. Tell them how they get a hold of you Tom the website and all that again.

[00:33:54] Yeah. Thank you so much. They can reach me at cardsthatwow.com you can find me on LinkedIn. Any kind of social media. It's Kellen@cardsthatwow.com Or like I said, I'm on most of the social media as I'm Kellen Ann.

[00:34:24] OK, awesome. Well I hope that they buy a bunch of custom cards from you and you'll visit the website. And like I said, I can't stand those fake custom cards, but these are real custom cards.

[00:34:42] So I going to send you a couple because you get you get samples when when you're on my show, I send you. Well, yeah. And you said, well, yeah.

[00:34:49] And we'll have it here at the retreat center says when students covid, you know, somebody decides to kill that we have a lot of high end people who come through here and we have a display case. So we'll put it right in our main display. Beautiful.

[00:35:03] Awesome. I appreciate that. All right. So thank you so much. I love this. This was fun. I'm so glad I got to screw.

[00:35:10] I hear you. I hear you. So thanks so much, Kellen. And we will catch everybody on the next episode. See ya later.

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