Patricia Noel Drain is the founder of the Case Academy. In the academy, she works with Coaches Authors Speakers and Entrepreneurs at the Case Academy to make the money they deserve with what they already know. Her newest event is The Year of the Woman is Now. Her book, with the same title, will be released soon and we'll have the exact date in the show notes for you.
NOTE: Complete transcript available at the bottom of the page.
Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 044
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Higher Education Webinar – It's the second webinar on the page: https://screwthecommute.com/webinars[01:48] Tom's introduction to Patricia Drain [02:34] What Patricia does and who she works with [05:00] Other jobs that Patricia had [06:49] Transitioning from full time employee to business owner [09:33] Advice for those looking to leave the cubicle [11:46] You can count on getting screwed over in business [14:35] Bizarre/funny business story [17:22] The best and worst of working for yourself [19:46] How people can work with Patricia [27:45] Sponsor message [28:17] A typical day for Patricia and how she stays motivated [31:44] Parting thoughts for us Screwballs
Higher Education Webinar – It's the second webinar on the page: https://screwthecommute.com/webinars
Screw The Commute – https://screwthecommute.com/
Patricia's website – https://patriciadrain.com/
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Ten cool ways to be great any time you speak – https://screwthecommute.com/episodes/43-ten-cool-ways-to-be-great-any-time-you-speak/
I discovered a great new headline / subject line / subheading generator that will actually analyze which headlines and subject lines are best for your market. I negotiated a deal with the developer of this revolutionary and inexpensive software. Oh, and it's good on Mac and PC. Go here: http://jvz1.com/c/41743/183906
The WordPress Ecourse. Learn how to Make World Class Websites for $20 or less. https://www.GreatInternetMarketing.com/wordpressecourse
Join our Private Facebook Group! One week trial for only a buck and then $37 a month, or save a ton with one payment of $297 for a year. Click the image to see all the details and sign up or go to https://www.greatinternetmarketing.com/screwthecommute/ After you sign up, check your email for instructions on getting in the group.
Want The Transcript for this episode?
Episode 044 – Patricia Drain
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.
[00:00:25] HEY EVERYBODY. It's Tom here with Episode 44 of screw the commute podcast.
[00:00:31] We have a really really awesome guest today. Her name is Patricia Drain the National Association of Women Business Owners some of you might recognize Nawbo picked her as the woman business owner of the year. How about that. So she's going to have some great insights for ya. Now hopefully you didn't miss Episode 43 which was one of my Monday weekly trainings called The Top 10 Ways to be great on stage. Now these things apply whether you're a pro speaker or if you're just doing a business presentation. So make sure you go back and listen to that episode. Now today's sponsor is the distance learning school the Internet Marketing Training Center of Virginia don't even think about retraining yourself or sending your kids to college or tell your neighbors about this until you check out our Webinar on higher education. I do not want you wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars and putting yourself and your kids under crushing debt. We'll have the Webinar in the show notes at screwthecommute.com/44. Because this is Episode 44.
[00:01:49] Now let's get to the main event. Patricia Noel Drain is the founder of the Case Academy in the academy she works with coaches C authors A speakers S and Entrepreneurs the Case Academy to make the money they deserve with what they already know. Her newest event is the year of the woman is now. Her book with the same title will be released soon and we'll have the exact date in the show notes for you. So Patricia are you ready to screw? The commute. Tell everybody what you do Patricia.
[00:02:37] Oh hi Tom thank you for having me on and hello everyone. It took me a long time to figure out who I really wanted to work with so that's why the case Academy even came about because I realized as I was going down this path of business mentoring that I was talking to small business owners and so I was on a plane a lot of times going to their office to motivate their employees and then I'd leave and they'd become demotivated now unmotivated and so I didn't want to do it that way any longer. That's why I chose coaches authors speakers and entrepreneurs to really help them put packages and programs together so they could help their clients and finally make the money they deserve with what they already knew. So that's basically you know right from my bio to what it is coming out of my mouth. It took me forever to figure that out. So now I am designing my business to be exactly what I want it to be.
[00:03:36] Yeah but you have been in quite a few successful businesses. Tell them some of the other business that you've been involved in or partners in.
[00:03:44] Yeah so I started in an executive recruiting firm. I was a schoolteacher years ago and I knew when I moved to Phoenix that I did not want to do that even though it was such an ideal job for me. I loved working with those children. But the money I thought I can't do that. And so I started interviewing with different executive recruiting firms in Phoenix and discovered very quickly that is what I should be doing in my life interviewing people to find a brand new position a brand new career for them. So when I started my own I thought this is kind of interesting but I was only building to sell so I built and sold four of those executive recruiting firms. That is until my last one and I decided no I don't want to go in there I don't want to suit up and go into those walls any longer. I wanted to work in a home based business and start business coaching and that's exactly what I did.
[00:04:39] So you were commuting to your own business basically.
[00:04:42] Well as I said one of the things that I said in my when I was looking for a J O B I said whatever I do I want to only commute 10 minutes. That's impossible in Phoenix. So now my commute is about 30 seconds and that's exactly what I want.
[00:05:00] So I didn't really realize you were a schoolteacher was that Tell me about other jobs that you've had and how long were you a school teacher.
[00:05:09] Well I had three jobs in my life when I worked at J.C. Penney's and that's when I was going to college. That kept me having spending money. The second one was a schoolteacher and I was a teacher for five years and taught second grade and absolutely every day I could not believe these little children that were holding my hands as we were leaving the building. They didn't get paid but I did. And it was so exciting to me that I got paid to do this. So it's really a shame you know that I'm now still a teacher but I just do it from stage a lot. And then my third job was the executive recruiter in Phoenix the very first job I had there. And I was there about three and a half years before I stayed out for a year because I had a non compete. And then I started my own executive recruiting firm.
[00:05:56] Luckily you're not a grade school teacher now because I actually had in my mentor program an ex teacher a kindergarten teacher who said when she was teaching a little I guess five years old is kindergarten. I think if they fell down on the playground she'd scoop them up and they're crying and she'd hold them and hug them and all that she said. Now they have a procedure. You can't hug them. Only can stop the bleeding. You can't do anything. She says I quit if I can treat a little child like a child and nurture them. I don't want to be here anymore. So now you'd get arrested for holding the kids hands in the park.
[00:06:35] Well it's so sad isn't it because I thought that same thing when I would coddle a child or hold them or whatever it could never do that today and I just feel that's such a shame.
[00:06:47] Exactly exactly so. So tell us about the transition though. I mean did you just drop school teaching or were you starting and planning your business before you quit so you had a paycheck coming in or how was the transition from stopping being an employee to a full time business.
[00:07:05] Yeah. When I finally said OK I'm not going back in the classroom because I see that that's like 18 to 30 thousand a year to make. I thought I can't do that anymore even though I loved it. So I tried to create a business that matched all of those things so when I went through my ingredients of what do I really need in a job. When I moved to Phoenix I really came up with the ingredients of I needed to communicate. I needed to be helping others I needed to have a very small commute. I needed to make sure that I could help people move somewhere in their life to the next level. That was very important to me so that fulfilled everything for many many years even when I opened my own. But the transition wasn't difficult for me because I was home raising my own family for 12 years before I finally moved to Phoenix and then decided I want to be my own boss. Well when I got the J O B in Phoenix I thought I was my own boss because I had my own office I had my own desk and I worked my own hours so that to me felt like my own place. But when I asked my boss which was really so silly on his part I said Is there anything else I can do here. Because I know I'm the top producer but I just want to be able to go to the next level.
[00:08:23] This is like an executive recruiting place.
[00:08:26] And he's he said no. There's nothing more you can do. And I said Well then I don't think I'll be able to stay. So I threw a party for myself because I noticed he never threw a party for anybody. So I bought balloons and I brought a cake on my last day and had a big party. And then as I say I had to stay out for a year but I really loved executive recruiting because of exactly what I said. I got to interview someone like you and then place you in a wonderful career for your future. And that just made me feel so good until I created myself as a manager and a CEO and the CFO. And now I was babysitting. I just simply was not doing the job I loved to do. So be careful everybody to not create something and put yourself in a position where you don't love what you do anymore.
[00:09:13] You left one thing out though when you create your own job. A lot of those executive acts like second graders. So what would you besides that. That was great advice. Not Create something that is just creating a bigger job for yourself. But what advice would you give for somebody sitting in that cubicle that wants to get out of it and start their own business or someone that wants to take their business to the next level.
[00:09:43] Oh I do this every day because those are the people I work with every single day in their business. And I say always be careful to never leave your cash cow feed it feed your cash cow but put a plan B together as you're doing that because I've had many people say oh I've got to get out of here. So they get out of there and they're so nervous and so beside themselves that they don't have money flowing that they go get another J O B. That's not what I want people to do if you truly are an entrepreneur and you want to start your next business and you want to get out of the cubicle then you really do have to put a plan B in place so that you feel the money is flowing on a side note Tom I did want to say about this client. She's only 35 years old and truly dying on the vine in this medical practice. But she is so frightened of stepping out knowing that she's burned out right now because she's afraid there's not going to be any money in place. And so because of that it's very hard for me to be working with her to get this plan B together. She's made eighteen hundred dollars in her plan B so far so that should be proof to her that there can be money made even while you're working a 60 hour job on the other side. So I say to everybody that's out there pay attention to your cash cow but know when you start getting burned out you need to have that plan B in place so you can take off faster.
[00:11:09] I tell people I want it to be too expensive eventually too expensive for them to go to work. Yes because they're same amount of time spent in their own business would bring in way more money. But still people that have been on the job and indoctrinated probably from their parents their whole life get a job for security. I can see their fears you know luckily I didn't have that. I was entrepreneurs since I was 10 years old. But I see how the great advice to keep that money coming in because the money's coming in and that reduces your fear right there. So have you ever gotten screwed over in business?
[00:11:49] I think if you have been in business for any amount of time you can always count on getting screwed over by somebody you really can. I mean it happens and it's happened to every person that I know that's in business for me of course it was taking on a partner that I knew he was smarter than me he was better than me. He knew more than me. He just was everything that I was not. And I came to find out very quickly no that was not true at all. I knew more than he knew in many many aspects of the business and he knew more than I did in other aspects. But he was the opposite of everything I believe in and that I hold dear which is family and friends and relationships and he was just the opposite of that he didn't care about any of that.
[00:12:42] I don't deal with anybody that's not top notch ethically.
[00:12:47] And it was so sad to be in that partnership I didn't know how to get out. But when I finally did and it wasn't a beautiful scene at the end.
[00:12:56] Did you shoot him? did you actually kill him? You felt like it didn't you.
[00:13:02] Yes I did. I did. Actually what I did the only way I could figure it out as I hung a pinata with his face on it and beat the heck out of it. Because that was the only way I knew how to just really get rid of him. Finally out of my life for good. And I swore I'll never have another partner again except my own husband. He's my partner.
[00:13:32] There you go. Yeah partnerships are easy to get into but now can be a really really nasty thing. That's a good point for everybody out there. Don't think that you always have to get somebody else to do the stuff because you can't do it. You could learn how to improve your business skills. But it's very difficult to get stuck with a bad partner and legal fees. And you know just the stress of it and you know they can really take it to the cleaners and they can hurt your reputation. You know I've heard stories where they ruined the other partners credit reputation taken out loans without them knowing about it and just can be bad. So partnership is the last resort. You know I want you to do it your own. You own everything farm out the things you need help for but don't give away equity. You know you can pay on a percentage basis because if they don't come through. You get rid of them. Find somebody else that will but you don't want to get stuck with people that's for sure. So anything bizarre funny crazy happen in your business life.
[00:14:41] I am so glad you asked me that question. I have not been able to tell this story for years because I haven't even thought about it until you said bizarre. And that word bizarre is so funny. So here it is in a capsule. Tom is a developer. Tom is my husband. And I am an executive recruiter I own the firm and so now we decided to move into this beautiful building in Phoenix together and he would have one half of the building and I'd have the other half not a building an office. And we moved into that office and maybe we were there about two weeks and I had noticed in the powder room cause that was also a beautiful thing that I noticed that there was a person in there a lot about one of our co-workers executive recruiters that was in there she decided one day that she was going to sit outside the bathroom and just wait to see who came out of that powder room because she thought this is strange and outcomes a guy maybe 35 years old and good looking but didn't have anything on him dress up and everything but she started to scream and my Tom heard her in the office and came running out and started chasing after this guy.
[00:15:51] And he had no idea why he's just chasing him as fast as he could and about a block down. He put his arm on the guy's shoulder and the guy stopped dead in his tracks. And Tom thought I wonder why am I why I'm chasing you. But he brought him back to the office and we called the police and the police came and he was sitting in our office for a very long time and the police went into the powder room went up through the ceiling found a bag filled with nylons high heels and a mirror. Now is out a bizarre story our what. And he had been in there. Day after day after day and we don't have any idea whatever happened to that guy. But it was the most bizarre thing that has ever happened to us before or since.
[00:16:37] He's the leader of some movement now. I'd never able pull that off I would be a seriously ugly woman.
[00:16:53] She said the reason she's decided to hang out because she said there was something so wrong with those feet that were in there all the time because of course. Can you imagine how big those feet were and I had noticed but I just would never have done what she did because I'm not suspicious. But you know you don't you just wonder how sick people it that poor kid had to be very sick to do something like that. So there's your bizarre story.
[00:17:24] Thank you. Thank you. So what do you like best about working for yourself. What do you like least about it.
[00:17:28] Well the best thing I think for all of us to that I like anyway is that you can really design a lifestyle business. And I have done that. I designed it so that I know exactly how many people I want to talk to throughout the day. I designed it so that if I want to go to lunch I go to lunch. I have also designed it. And I didn't at first Tom. I have a feeling you kind of are one of those people that you work at 9 o'clock at night if you choose to. And I did that also and then finally I said OK if this really is a lifestyle business would I be going into some office at 9:00 at night and that's when I decided to close the door at 5:00 and just take the evening off. Not reply to emails. It's hard because I want to many times and I do if I choose to but I really had to start making choices because as I was teaching how to design a lifestyle business I had to look at my own and say OK are you now trapped. Are you doing five clients a day instead of three and now you're trapped on a phone all day long with earphones. So I pay very close attention to that that's what I love the most and probably the least that I love is being alone in business completely alone. You know when they say it's lonely at the top. It is lonely at the top. And so once again because I designed a lifestyle business I decided to get a board of directors to just run things past so I have five people on my board and I'll have a meeting with them on a monthly basis and go over what it is I'm doing right and what it is I'm doing wrong. And now I don't feel like I'm alone any longer.
[00:19:04] I tell people that came from a corporate environment to buy yourself a water cooler and then go stand next to it and gossip to yourself. And they'll feel like their back in the old swing of things. I totally for lifestyle businesses except my lifestyle. I just love this so much part of my fire everyday is creating things that didn't exist. I had a nightclub for six years where bikers were trying to kill me. It's 9 o'clock at night and nobody's hit me with a beer bottle perfect time to answer e-mails. We didn't have e-mails when I was getting chased by bikers. How can people work with you what you got coming up. And it's hard to tell when they'll hear this. So what do you got coming up we'll have links in the show notes to anything that's current for you so if you have it now and it's not available then. Or if you don't have it now you have it then. That's all right we'll keep it up to day. But in general how do people work with you.
[00:20:08] Thank you Tom. And Tom before I say that I really have to just applaud you for doing this podcast because this is the kind of podcast that I think people need to hear that there is hope that they don't have to get up every day get in a car commute for 45 minutes two hours who knows what that you have now given them tools and techniques by interviewing people and through your own self how they don't have to do that any longer. They can literally create their own homestyle home based business. So good for you.
[00:20:40] Yeah and also in the school that I created the sponsor for today's show. It gives them the tools to do it. So many people just it's hard. Like I said before it's hard for them to believe that this could happen. But if they had the tools and somebody holding their hand and they won't make as many mistakes they won't blow a lot of money just trying to figure it out themselves so we do. I do a Monday on this show deep training on something where it's just me and then I interview people like you and other great people on Wednesdays and Fridays. Currently that say hey look here's people that used to be a school teacher used to be this or that or used to be a welder and now they're running their own business. Yes You can do this but you have to do it smart. You don't want to just quit your job and then be broke. Like you mentioned earlier and have no cash flow and you feel like oh I got to run back and get another job.
[00:21:37] That's right. And another thing Tom about your school when you were saying that at the very beginning I wanted to fit this in. Now it's a perfect time to do that. So I was out yesterday and talked with a hairdresser. Well she was kind of following my hairdresser around and I said Are you in school and she said yes I'm in the Paul Mitchell School. And I said Oh that's great. And she said I'm into to seven months. I have just maybe seven more to go. I said oh wow that's a long time. And I said do they teach you how to do business. And she said not at all. They teach you how to do hair and how to do all this stuff but they don't teach you how to go get a client. And I said oh My gosh. So what would you pay to be able to learn about the business of doing this hairdressing business. And she said I don't think I could pay anything because this schooling is costing me 25000 dollars. So back to your point of please don't waste that money when somebody like you has this school set up. That gives you the basic tools and techniques to run a business. And trust me everybody this isn't a love fest with Tom I don't mean it to be. But I've been to his school and it is dynamic. It is probably one of the best things I personally have ever done for myself. So I can't recommend it enough Tom.
[00:22:55] Thank you so much. Yeah. And so you can be the best. Now this is one of the sad things of the world that person you're talking about could be the best hairdresser on the face of the earth but if nobody knows about it and she can't do the business end of it then there's nowhere to go. So the sad thing that I always quote is that a great marketer will be a great practitioner any day of the week because they can just claim that they're a great hairdresser and tell millions of people about it. And people say well I guess they're great. Where the really great one is languishing because nobody's heard of her. If you're both then you could rule the world. So you've got to get the business skills and that's what this podcast and my school and all my resources. Tell about what you're doing with the Case Academy.
[00:23:49] Ok so I'm going to copy what you just said by the way a great marketer beats a great practitioner all day long. I love that Tom so just know that I'll give you credit but I have to say it. But the case Academy is really where I do teach the coaches and authors and speakers and entrepreneurs how to do it at a different level how to make the money they deserve because most people aren't simply not making the money they deserve because they don't realize they need to create programs and packages to help their clients. Now what I have now become part of is the year of the woman is now. And it's because I know I am supposed to be doing things even bigger than what I'm doing right now and the year of the woman is now is so funny to me because I've always thought it was the year of the woman. I've always known women have this power. But what I started noticing is when women step into their power they start doing that like a man because they're in a man's world. And so we need to do it in our own way so I'm naming and trademark the gentle power movement. And I want us to step into our gentle power and start doing the things that we can do to change the world. Making a difference one small step at a time. So that is seriously much bigger than I am. We're going to start a membership. We're going to be doing masterminds around it. We're going to be doing live events so that we can all see each other. But the main thing is I can't have anybody part of that unless they really are ready to make a difference. And by the way since I love men I have lots of men in my life. We also respect and honor him our highly intelligent men that also want to make a difference and so I don't like leaving them out because we have a lot of them that belong to our international group just because they know that they want to be standing with us strong in our power.
[00:25:42] So we'll have links to whatever's current when you listen to this and of course. Patricia you can update anytime with us and we'll keep the current staff under your show. But I have to tell you folks and again this isn't a lovefest with Patricia although I do love her and I love her husband Tom and everything that they stand for because that's the people that I like to role with the people that do things that are ethical and create stuff that never existed which she's really great at. But when I have attended her events and spoken at her events people just freaking love her because she doesn't overhype stuff she gives you what she Promises. I never heard a complaint ever in all the years how long we've known each other anyway. Can't remember where we met or how we met.
[00:26:38] I think it's maybe 15 years now. I think.
[00:26:42] Gotta be longer than that. Because I've been at the retreat center for 16 years. And I think I knew you before that. How did we meet.
[00:26:54] I think it was maximizing success. And Tom came to that and spoke and and of course just wowwed the audience. Because when you are the real deal and you all know what I'm talking about when you are the real deal people resonate with that. And when you aren't and they see that you're not authentic they don't. And Tom is one of the real deals. So he would come to those events and wow everybody and usually be the biggest sales person in the back of the room because everybody wanted more of him.
[00:27:26] Well that's why we like each other because we do what we say and we wow the audience to give them more than they expected. So great so they'll check that out. We've got to take a brief message from our sponsor and we'll be right back to hear about a typical day for Patricia and what keeps her motivated. We'll be right back.
[00:27:46] Today, almost two billion of you will go online retrieving over 100 billion searches for information, goods and services, and 6 million of you will view a page on the internet before this commercial is over. The world has changed and so is the way we do business. At the Internet Marketing Training Center, you can study online at your pace to fit your schedule, and you can graduate with the skills and knowledge to compete in the global marketplace or start your own home based business. Call us today or go online at IMTCVA.org. Because, it's about time. Yours.
[00:28:18] All right. We're back with Patricia Drain on Episode 44 of screw the commute podcast. We want to hear what a typical day is for a lady that lives the lifestyle business. What keeps her motivated. Tell us what it's like on a daily basis for you Patricia.
[00:28:36] Well when I said I design my life to work around my business see for a few years I would really create a business and then I'd work my life around it somehow. And so I suit up I'd commute I go in I work in there and babysit and then I come home. And now I do it the opposite I really design my business around me and I design everything around my lifestyle and how I want that lifestyle to look. So a typical day is I begin usually at 10 a.m. my time wherever I am in the world because I like to write and think and create in the morning so I get up about 530 and just start writing and figuring out different programs and packages and things like that. And I do that almost every single day.
[00:29:25] But you said you started at 10 and then you said you started at 5:30.
[00:29:30] Oh I see. I'm sorry that was confusing. I start my actual day with a client getting on the phone with them at 10 o'clock. OK. But I actually start my day my lifestyle day in business and 530 so that I'm writing and creating and doing the things like writing a new book. You know I've created like 15 books to date and so I'm always doing things like that. But I realized when you were asking about a typical day I love doing about or talking coaching three to four clients a day I don't like doing more than that my interns come once a week. I have three of them and one is ten. One is fourteen one is sixteen. They know more than I know and they're fabulous. And they still keep me around that beautiful children's awe and wows and all the things that they know that I don't know and then I have two masterminds and one is live and that meets twice a month and one is via phone so that meets once a week. And so I'd keep those going all the time. And you know when you said what keeps me motivated it really is constantly saying to myself Do I love what I'm doing today. Is this something that really is giving me excitement and the moment I say no it's kind of dull and feeling kind of lost right now. I'll create something else because then I know that it's time to move on and do a different kind of event maybe a bigger than life event like I'm doing with the year of the woman is now. I just feel that's just going to be so big and so necessary right now also.
[00:31:03] I want to go back to that year of the woman now. That's a live event.
[00:31:08] Yes I'm going to be doing the year of the woman twice a year because I really want to name women of the year. I want it to be the real women out there not the people that said I was poor and now I'm a gazillionaire I was nothing and Now I'm a movie star. I want to just go with the real people that are making a difference. One little tiny bit at a time but not even realizing they're doing that. Many women just don't have the maybe the self-respect or the self nurturing they should have. So now I just think it's time to step into that role.
[00:31:42] Great great ambition. So any parting thoughts for all our screwballs out there that are thinking about starting a business or taking their business to the next level.
[00:31:54] Well all you screwballs. I guess my parting thoughts would be look at your life and your business every day and just say on a scale of 1 to 10 how happy Am I today how great do I feel about what it is I'm doing. And if you're an 8 9 or 10 you're doing just fine. If you're anything under that. Pay attention and say OK what could I add so that I could really be happy. Much happier today than I've been much more relaxed today. What would that be that I could add. To me that's the best thing that we can ever do.
[00:32:32] The hardest book I'm writing right now Tom is called The Magic is in the question because I know the magic is in all the questions that I ask myself and I ask others and if you get into the art of knowing how to do that you'll lead a happier life.
[00:32:48] That's what we want for these people to have a lifestyle business their dreams the money that they need to support their family and when life gets in the way they're not stressed out and tearing themselves up and make other people rich. So Patricia it's always always so great to hear from you. These are great insights. I want everybody to check out the show notes for whatever she's got going on currently when you listen to this and really appreciate you coming on.
[00:33:19] Thank you Tom it's a delight.
[00:33:21] All right so before you leave everybody I want to tell you something about you know what colleges and universities are doing according to gradeinflation.com. They're raising grade point averages to make it look like they're doing a better job of teaching when there's a mountain of evidence that they aren't. So I want you to watch the eye opening higher education webinar at screwthecommute.com/44. That's what this episode is to potentially save yourself and possibly your loved ones friends and neighbors hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when they go for higher education. This has been Episode 44 with Patricia Drain. Check out all her stuff and other things mentioned in this episode in the show notes and please subscribe and leave a review at iTunes and I'll catch y'all next time.
Join my distance learning school: https://www.IMTCVA.org
Join the mentor program PLUS get a FREE Scholarship to the School: https://www.GreatInternetMarketingTraining.com