Tom Terwilliger is equal parts athlete, entrepreneur, and motivator. And five years after pulling himself from the world of drug and alcohol abusing outlaw bikers, Tom's “never give up” attitude, determination, and willingness to sweat has earned him a national bodybuilding championship. He is and was Mr. America and he had a successful 16 year career as a Fox Sports Net TV show host.
NOTE: Complete transcript available at the bottom of the page.
Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 149
How To Automate Your Business – https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Higher Education Webinar – https://screwthecommute.com/webinars[02:27] Tom's introduction to Tom Terwilliger [07:27] Having a job and the evolution to entrepreneur [12:35] Getting kidnapped at gunpoint [13:47] Taking it out on Billy Idol [20:16] Evolving into high level bodybuilding [29:33] Transitioning into a motivator [39:58] The best and worst parts of working for yourself [42:58] Sponsor message [45:07] A typical day for Tom and how he stays motivated [59:49] Parting thoughts for us Screwballs
Higher Education Webinar – It's the second webinar on the page: https://screwthecommute.com/webinars
Screw The Commute – https://screwthecommute.com/
Screw The Commute Podcast App – https://screwthecommute.com/app/
Know a young person for our Youth Episode Series? Send an email to Tom! – email@example.com
Have a Roku box? Find Tom's Public Speaking Channel there! – https://channelstore.roku.com/details/267358/the-public-speaking-channel
How To Automate Your Business – https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/
Internet Marketing Retreat and Joint Venture Program – https://greatinternetmarketingtraining.com/
Tom's website – http://www.tomterwilliger.com/
Max Mind Lean Body Video – https://hop.clickbank.net/?affiliate=powertips&vendor=maxmindset&page=1
Max Mind Lean Body Text Version – https://hop.clickbank.net/?affiliate=powertips&vendor=maxmindset&page=2
New York accent – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_accent
Internet Marketing Training Center – https://imtcva.org/
Advisory Boards – https://screwthecommute.com/148/
I discovered a great new headline / subject line / subheading generator that will actually analyze which headlines and subject lines are best for your market. I negotiated a deal with the developer of this revolutionary and inexpensive software. Oh, and it's good on Mac and PC. Go here: http://jvz1.com/c/41743/183906
The WordPress Ecourse. Learn how to Make World Class Websites for $20 or less. https://www.GreatInternetMarketing.com/wordpressecourse
Join our Private Facebook Group! One week trial for only a buck and then $37 a month, or save a ton with one payment of $297 for a year. Click the image to see all the details and sign up or go to https://www.greatinternetmarketing.com/screwthecommute/
After you sign up, check your email for instructions on getting in the group.
Want The Transcript for this episode?
Episode 149 – Tom Terwilliger
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.
[00:00:24] Hey everybody it's Tom here with episode 149 of screw the commute podcast. We're here with Tom Terwilliger. This guy went from a bad world to literally the top of the world and became Mr. America. And he also for some reason I don't know why knocked Billy Joel down a flight of stairs. We're going to ask him why and how he did that. Now episode 148 if you missed that that's my Monday training. This Monday was on advisory boards. Now in this episode I told you about the difference in boards of directors which is a whole different thing and advisory boards and the fantastic doors such a board can open for your business. I told you about that Monday. So that's episode 148. All right our podcast app's in the iTunes store you can go to screwthecommute.com/app where we have complete instructions to show you how to use all the fancy features so you can take us with you on the road. Now I've got a great freebie for you. To thank you for listening to the podcast is my twenty seven dollar e-book how to automate your business. Just one of the tips in this e-book has saved me over seven and a half million keystrokes and I just might have another little something over there if you go to screwthecommute.com/automatefree I've got two freebies over there for you all at one of them will surprise you at screwthecommute.com/automatefree now our sponsor is the great internet marketing retreat and joint venture program where myself and my staff work with you for a year to either get you started in an Internet business or to use the Internet to take your existing business to the next level I'll tell you more about that little bit later but the details will be at greatInternetmarketingtraining.com and of course everything we talk about will be in the show notes this is Episode 149.
[00:02:32] All right let's get to the main event. Tom Terwilliger is equal parts athlete entrepreneur and motivator. And five years just five years after pulling himself from the world of drug and alcohol abusing outlaw bikers. Tom's never give up attitude determination and willingness to Sweat has earned him a national bodybuilding championship. He is and was Mr. America and he had a successful 16 year career as a Fox Sports Net TV show host. He's since written two number one bestselling books The Seven Rules of achievement and why smart goals may be dumb. And he's the recipient of the 2017 AAU, I believe that Amateur Athletic Union, Legends Award Tom has taught thousands of individuals and organizations the empowering leadership body rapport and life success tools rules and strategies needed to take massive leaps forward in their lives businesses and careers. Tom are you ready to screw. The commute.
[00:03:50] I most certainly am. And with an introduction like that. I can't thank you enough. And by the way before I before I say one more word I want to say what an honor and a privilege it is to be on this show with you. Tom I am a huge fan. For those of you if you're just tuning in for the first time listening to Tom you are in the right place this guy I saw Tom I think we met several years ago you were doing a talk and the might have been for a Peak Potentials or one of the big events and I was so impressed. Wanted to get to know you introduced myself and found out how much we actually had in common. And this is several years ago so thank you. Well I'm honored to be able to join you today.
[00:04:29] I feel the same way I mean the I know the kind of efforts that you've put it in your life to get where you're at because a lot of people in today's atmosphere can barely walk across the street without getting out of breath. And the things that you've accomplished. I looked through Google Images folks where do you look up his name in google images. Be prepared to start drooling because this guy is the bomb. So. So tell everybody what you're doing now and then we're going to take you back and bring you up through your entrepreneurial journey and knocking the hell out of Billy Joel. And all the things that you've got quite a colorful career and you say we have a lot of things in common. Yeah I've got a colorful career but a little bit different than yours. But tell him what you're doing now and then we'll take you back a little bit later.
[00:05:21] Well I'll tell you I've done so many things over the years that almost everything has revolved around helping folks identify or change or even reframe their mindset. And for years I've been working with executives athletes everyday people to uncover and help them discover a better way a more empowering way of thinking about what they want to achieve. Getting clarity on that and then finding a better way to go about doing it. You know if someone wants to lose weight for example when they've been struggling with that for years. My job is to help them to recognize those internal obstacles that may be holding them back. And quite often it's simple it's simple sometimes as easy as helping someone identify what they're actually moving towards vs. you know trying to move away from being overweight trying to move away from being unhealthy. And so that's something I've been doing for years. You know what we use a number of different strategies in that area. But I'd say that today we've kind of evolved and I say we my wife and I are in business together. A company is called LoDo media and we've sort of move forward to something that we've been passionate about for years and that's fitness really. And so we're very successful today. And I guess you can define what I use in a more digital marketing than anything else. I still work with groups and one on one in the coaching realms for your transformation and change but we're doing a lot of that online with our digital products and we've got some new products out now that work more closely to the fitness realm than anything else so I guess really if I wanted to define it today I'm a digital marketing more than anything else right now.
[00:06:58] Beautiful. How do you come up with the name of the business.
[00:07:02] The name of the business has sprung up from our first office here in Denver Colorado because I moved to Denver several years ago after I met the gal that would ultimately become my wife. She definitely influenced my move. No question about it. And so when I landed here I want to have an office in Denver and the area that we had our office in is called Lo Do. So we called our company LoDo Media.
[00:07:29] That makes sense. I want to take you back because you've had some interesting experiences in your life including being kidnapped. I think you're held at gunpoint by bikers and you know I've had my run ins with bikers for sure and I want to take you even back further. Did you have a job when you were a kid growing up and what kind of life did you. Were your entrepreneurial or what. How did it evolve into where you are now.
[00:07:57] Well I can't say that as a kid. I was entrepreneur. You know you have some kids that just like they had a paper out early on they mowed lawns. They were always trying to raise money and earn money and they were very entrepreneurial. I can't say that I had that that entrepreneurial spirit early on. You know money was obviously important to me and I found ways to do odd jobs here and there but it wasn't it wasn't that entrepreneurial spirit. My dad my father certainly taught me how to work hard to a fault in many respects. So my dad was he worked sometimes two jobs. He was always working overtime. One of the hardest workers I've ever known. And he taught me that it was instilled upon me. And when I say to a fault is that you know for years I put hard work ahead of smart work and and I want to do. And if you if all you're doing is honoring hard work you never really it's hard to get ahead. It's really about the work the value is about the work and not necessarily the progress and the results. So that's why I mean that's what I mean when I say to a fault but as a kid it's interesting because early on I was I was always in trouble. I had a twin brother. You were constantly fighting we were always you know hellions. I was the I was the youngest even out of the twins of six children.
[00:09:17] Now where did you grow up because I'm hearing some kind of accent there that doesn't sound Denverish.
[00:09:21] That's the that's the New York accent. When I get impassioned about something it comes out it definitely gets a little bit thicker though you might you might hear more of it as we continue. So yeah we were always in trouble. And and ultimately you know one thing led to another in high school I got my first Harley Davidson and then started riding with some not so great people I fell into the wrong crowd. Right in high school.
[00:09:52] Did you buy the Harley yourself. Did you steal it or what.
[00:10:01] That's an interesting story. I'll keep it brief. Like I had I had a Honda at that time but it was a bad ass Honda. It was a Honda collector's item today. And but it was chopped out. It was on a rigid frame. Oh I had like just long crate you couldn't even steer the thing it was ridiculous so chopped out. I hated it but it was cool right. I have in high school and some kid who knew I loved motorcycles came to my house one day. I had known him just briefly in high school it was a year or two younger than me and my my house and said hey I've got this bike want to see if you're interested in buying it. So I said Well how did you get it. The kid stole it right. One of his neighbors had passed away several years before had an old motorcycle in the garage and it was sitting there for years. One day the guy's mom just left the garage door open and the kid swiped it and he hid it in the woods over by not far from my house. Buried it under a bunch of trees and branches and leaves and stuff like that. So he takes me over to show me the bike and as we're digging it out I am drooling because it's a old Harley Davidson Pan Head cropped out but it's clearly like from the 60s. You know it's got the metallic paint and the weird front end and all this other stuff but I'm drooling. So I said Well what are you looking for. He goes you are you actually you give me about five hundred bucks. So let me think about it. So we covered back up and of course that night that very night my brother and I went back and we stole it from him. So we're not it's not my most proud moment by moment so I'm less proud of. But we swiped it and the kid came to my house the next day oh man the bike's gone you were the only one who knew where it was and I said hey listen I'm not saying I have it or not. I said but I'll tell you what. If you want to forget all about it I'll give you a case of Schlitz and 50 bucks. You said I'll take it. So that's sort of one thing led to another that first Harley Davidson and of course that bike was illegal had no papers. So I had to find the right or I should really preface that with the wrong people to to stamp on some fresh numbers and match that with some papers from an old Harley or wreck or something you know and get this thing on the road. And I was able to do that and as a result like I said connected with some of the wrong people and just started that became for the next five years or so even through high school. That became a huge part of my lifestyle and was not my best part.
[00:12:39] So how did you get kidnapped at gunpoint. How did that come about.
[00:12:46] Well you know after riding with some of these guys and it was you know and you you got some familiarity with the outlaws. You had to go to a bar nightclub where you had to deal with a lot of them. And so I was riding with one particular club in Long Island and and they were feuding at the time was another bigger club I can't mention any name. One much bigger club that were that really had their their headquarters in Manhattan. And. And during this feud I got caught up in it somehow and was kidnapped grabbed out walking out of my house beaten half to death by at gunpoint and hauled all over Long Island demanding that I take them and find a particular guy they were looking for you know and of course I led them on a wild goose chase all over everywhere with this guy would never be found. And it almost cost me my life as a result of it. So they finally dropped me off I had to be rushed to the hospital and it was certainly wasn't pretty but it was it was an adventure.
[00:13:53] So. So you decide to take it out on Billy Joel.
[00:13:59] That was really Billy Idol.
[00:14:01] Billy Idol. Okay.
[00:14:04] I was in I later on and it's all kind of connected because after you know all of the whole biker thing and you know riding with these guys it just never. At first it felt congruent it felt like where I belonged honestly because I was always a Hoople in school and early on I was put into the special ed class because of dyslexia and hyperactivity. So I began to identify with that with being less than norm being outside the norm and almost being was that biker School a one percenter. And so I identify with that. So it felt natural for me to be riding with these guys hang with these guys and building a lifestyle around this.
[00:14:45] What age were you at this time.
[00:14:49] Well when I first got that bike I was just turning 17. And so for the next five years and well into my early 20s this is this was the lifestyle I was living.
[00:15:00] Were you living at home or employed.
[00:15:06] Yeah I had I had a little apartment with a buddy of mine and in fact as I look back at it today and we used to keep our bikes in the living room.
[00:15:13] Of course. Where else would you put it.
[00:15:15] The whole place smelled like gasoline and oil but we had a place there so I guess I was about 17 18 when I got my first place with my buddy Charlie and we'd park our bikes and then we'd have big parties and and it was always a little bit crazy. So that was around from from about 17 to about twenty to twenty three was that period of time and I guess sort of around twenty two twenty three late late twenty two years old I began to realize this is not what I thought it was I honestly thought the whole biker lifestyle especially at that level the 1 percent level was about just about camaraderie about brotherhood about you know there's a bond between you and your brothers based on your motorcycle your love that you know and really and as you and I both know it's in many respects it's it's organized crime. And so when I began to realize this is what I'm immersed in and this is not really who I am. I had to make a change and it wasn't easy making that change. I won't go into the whole story around that but breaking loose of it really took took some determination. I took a beating again and finally broke free. And so I found my way back into the gym back into where I'd been training a little bit as a teenager and I had won a couple of teenage bodybuilding shirts before I got that first Harley Davidson. And so thank God I had that foundation.
[00:16:47] At 15 and 16 you were winning bodybuilding stuff.
[00:16:51] Yeah actually I my first bodybuilding competition. I was just a little over 15. and I loved. I tell you the first time I. Saw a magazine with Arnold Schwarzenegger on the cover once in a while in homeroom a buddy of mine had it at homeroom in junior high school and I. I looked at it and I was like Oh my God it's just a human being really looked like this. And and so I started reading those magazines and started working out with that intention in mind and joined a gym that was like hardcore called future man in Amityville Long Island really hardcore bodybuilding you know and and just fell in love with it. And then I was encouraged to enter a few teenage shows and actually did pretty well as a teenager but it was short lived because I got that first Harley and some unknown blueprint that I'm not good enough I'm not part of society began to show up again and that's when the negativity showed up. But thank God I got out of that. So after I started bodybuilding again and started doing well on the local level and on the regional level. I was asked to do a number of things one was to be part of the upcoming A New Model Management Company in New York called better bodies and it was interesting because the guy who started this Brian was a great entrepreneur by the way started this name because he began to see a demand for athletic bodies not just bodybuilders but athletic fit bodies and a lot of the Model management companies just didn't have the individuals to meet that requirement. So he rounded up some of the best from the great bodybuilders and fitness people some athletes and formed this model management company and sure enough it took off. I mean it really took off well. We did probably five or six national level television commercials as a result of it got my Screen Actors Guild card and then we'd started doing these performances. We got the group together started doing these performances through New York in New York at these nightclubs no longer biker clubs but the big discos big night clubs in Manhattan the limelight the Palladium all the big clubs. We started doing these performances like Broadway show performances you might say and there were a lot of fun. So at one of these performances at the limelight which is a very famous nightclub in Manhattan was an old church converted to this nightclub. We were performing that night and I remember looking at my watch it's probably around midnight where we're supposed to be on stage I'm supposed to be on stage like right now and I'm upstairs. So I'm like Oh my God I got to bolt. So I look at my watch I saw it running down the spiral staircase and I'm moving down this staircase bumping into people charge and trying to dodge people. I get just about to the bottom and I slam into this poor guy and knock him about I guess I'm about 250 220 pounds I knock em clear across the room. He gets up I help them up I'm like Oh my God are you okay. It's Billy Idol. So the only thing he's concerned about is his bottle of champagne which broke of course says I'll buy you another one but I had to run off and that was my encounter with Billy Idol. I don't know if he'll ever forget it but I won't.
[00:20:22] So how did you evolve into really high level bodybuilding.
[00:20:30] Part of it was the love of the performance. For me it was really it wasn't just about building the muscle and you know being that guy. It was I wanted to really perform I wanted to move people who watch the performance. I had the privilege of going to the opening of pumping iron in Manhattan. This was when I had first yeah. I'd just gotten into bodybuilding thing and I was still a teenager. And so the movie opened in Manhattan I went and a number of the athletes who were in that movie were also live performing guest posing that night. Lou Ferrigno a guy named Ed corney. Frank Zane some of these other guys that were Mr. Universe Mr. world and I and one of them Ed corney who who pose that night great physique but it wasn't his physique that moved me which is the way he moved the way he posed the way he shifted from one pose to another was like it was like a statue that had come to life and it literally sent shivers down my spine. I I just I will never forget how it made me feel I would say and moved me. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to move people who watched me perform on stage as a bodybuilder not so much as with the muscle but with the performance with something that came to life something that their imagination could get behind. And so as a result those performances in Manhattan became a catalyst for wanting more of that on a much higher level. I began to see that I had some aptitude for. Or I was devoted to it. I had the passion for it and then ultimately entered my first national bodybuilding championship and Mr. America took third place which was extremely encouraging the first time out. I was hoping maybe maybe if I'm lucky I'll make the top 10. I mean these are guys from all over the country that are the best. And so I make the top 10. I'd be elated.
[00:22:25] But I'm not clear on this. So was this amateur or is this professional where you get prize money.
[00:22:30] The Mr. America's amateur. One of the goals for most athletes competing in the Mr. America competition or the national bodybuilding championship as you referred to today is to earn that pro card to be able to go and compete on what's called the Mr. Olympia stage which is what Arnold Schwarzenegger more or less made famous in the bodybuilding world he won the Mr. Olympia 8 times.
[00:22:53] Which you did. But I mean were you allowed to accept sponsorships and things as an amateur.
[00:22:59] Not really as an amateur we had sponsors I had sponsors that were supplement sponsors. Protein drinks. My vitamins my minerals things like that from from the sponsors. But you really couldn't accept paid. You weren't supposed to anyway and I never did. I never I never was that fortunate.
[00:23:17] Is it like the Olympics where I mean they're amateurs but you devote a lot of significant portion of your life to that. How do you do live. How do you pay bills. How do you get by.
[00:23:27] Very difficult at the time. I was working in Manhattan as a personal trainer at a very small studio which is one of the few time I actually the only real time in my life when you talk about you know bustin loose you know screwing the commute. And I remember because this is all the stuff all of the performances and stuff where I train was in Manhattan but I lived in Long Island and I remember the first year of commuting back and forth from Long Island Manhattan was about about an hour and a half drive there and back. But with traffic it was not would take me two hours to get there and then I finally realized hey it's a lot easier on the train. But even then it sucked because it was always hot. It was always crowded. It was you couldn't get a seat. It was just brutal. That commute that whole commute thing that you're helping people break loose of man. That was one of the things that was a catalyst for me to gain some semblance of control in my life and my career was not having to do that. I didn't want to do that anymore. You know. But of course Manhattan was where everything was happening. So you know I was fortunate to have a job there and to do pretty well with it.
[00:24:33] You worked out of a club or you went to people's homes or what.
[00:24:36] It was actually a small personal training studio called definitions. And the two guys that owned it had to hire. I was their first train and they brought in and we helped grow it. We you know we grew that business together I think we had about 10 trainers and it's an interesting story because you know that was another catalyst that that really facilitated my wanting to break free of that commute thing as we would define it because he my boss who I hate to say I don't want to say anything negative about anybody. He was a prick and I already know he was a prick right from the beginning but he went he went to the to Miami to see me compete in that Mr. America competition. The year I won and I remember seeing him afterwards outside and he didn't congratulate me. He never once said hey congratulations great job. He said he goes be in the gym ready to go at 6:00 a.m. Monday. It was Saturday. I just won the national champion. I mean I'm on my way to California to do photos and work with Joe Weider and all the. And I said give me a week. I said I'll be back you know I need to take some time off. And he said no you've got to be there Monday. That was the catalyst. It was like I was done I was done with the commute I was done with the job. So I opened my first gym six months later.
[00:25:52] So you didn't go in Monday I suspect.
[00:25:55] I didn't go in Monday and I didn't. And you know what normally I would've felt bad bad about it but I didn't feel bad about it. I was out in California you know doing that whole thing and getting sponsorships and so it was a really winning the Mr. America was was my my meal ticket you might say to creating some freedom.
[00:26:19] So that allowed you to go pro. So that gave you the I don't know how does that go point system or how did you get a pro card.
[00:26:28] Well as soon as you win a national level competition like a Mr. America or Mr. USA or a team Universe competition it was only three at that time. There were only three competitions that you could win that would qualify you to turn professional. And then you would get your pro card. You didn't have to accept it. Some guys didn't. They preferred to remain on the amateur level and continue to compete which is cool. And honestly you know after turning professional. It became more like a job than a passion. I really enjoyed training for Mr. America. It was three or four years of just I was just like a really impassioned process turning pro it really. It began almost feeling like a job. It became a business. You have to make money now. You've got to make money from it.
[00:27:17] And so how does that work. How does the pro bodybuilder make money.
[00:27:22] Well some were able to pick up sponsors I was able to pick up by a good sponsor called Nature's Best supplement company. They paid me. Yeah. Great company. And they paid me off I think was about two hundred thousand dollars a year which at the time for me it was great. I loved it. Of course I was squandering it left and right. But then it wasn't shortly after that that I opened up my first athletic club in Belmore Long Island. A year later we opened up our second.
[00:27:52] What was your age at this time roughly.
[00:27:56] I won the national championship when I was twenty six. So at twenty seven we opened up the first athletic club sort of getting sponsorships.
[00:28:04] And you were a pro at say 27 years old.
[00:28:08] That's right. Right now. Things started to change a little bit after that which was nice but I only competed as a pro for about I think was about four years or so competed in to Mr. Olympia competitions which is the pinnacle. That's the goal of every body builder to get to get to compete in and hopefully win the Olympia. You know I was never going to win the Olympic I wasn't I just wasn't big enough. I didn't have the bone structure. Some of the guys were you know just really I mean we all pushed ourselves but the level that Dorian Yates or Lee Haney or an Arnold Schwarzenegger they were pushing themselves was I mean just extraordinary. I mean you've dedicated every moment of your entire life to winning that competition and and so it was it was one that I finally realized that it's just not going to happen. And and so I stopped dedicating myself to that plus when I moved here to Colorado I fell in love with my my wife and we were mountain biking. I went over the bars broke my arm compound fractured broke the clavicle broke a couple of my ribs but I think that was a message from my unconscious mind that was saying to me it's time to retire and if you're not going to do it consciously I'm gonna do it for you and it did.
[00:29:24] Well you kind of go what you deserve. You probably had her right in front of you looking at her butt the whole time.
[00:29:29] Well that's absolutely true. There's no question about it. I mean I'm I'm still doing that today.
[00:29:37] All right. So how did that transition into what you're doing now. Because you're quite a motivator and really a mental expert.
[00:29:45] Yes. Because a lot of that actually stemmed from what I do today in terms of the mindset and motivation. Is that all stemmed from the bodybuilding career I knew early on in I think a lot of a lot of guys go into bodybuilding who want to build the body want to build muscle. So like I said I wanted to be a motivator. I wanted to move people I wanted to change people's lives with a performance. And I also knew that for me to solidify this new mindset that I had about hey I can be a champion I could be someone special I can take my life to another level. I knew to solidify that I had to work on myself because it would've been easy to slip back into find any little reason maybe buy a new Harley or maybe I start some drinking buddies something that would have pulled me back into that negative mindset that I once had and those negative beliefs that I once had. So I knew that I had to make some changes along the way in my own thinking My own belief system. So I began to study I began to research I began to work with change agents at that time Tony Robbins certainly being one of those influences Maxwell malts one of my first books on really changing our perceptions and our and our and our belief system around ourselves psycho cybernetics was a tremendous influence. So all then I read everything I could get my hands on and put it into practice just read the put it into practice put the self hypnosis techniques into practice put the visualization into practice put all the things the posture changing of the state and the price of everything I did it all. And as a result things began to change and solidify into my belief system once the belief system changed man the ability to do things to take on new challenges began to change as well. And I knew if I could do that for me you know the kid that was put into a special ed class I was riding without a bike. If that worked for me then by God it can help and work for others as well. And that's what I made the decision to start really working with people in the changing of their mindset it began first with the personal training but it went beyond just pumping iron working out and getting fit. It began really with helping change their mindset then incorporating the tools that helped them get more fit. Now one thing led to another led to another and ultimately wrote a couple of books on those subjects and and that. And that was a springboard that really helped launch the coaching career. And so that's what came about. And I think a lot of it a lot for a lot of people that's that's you know we go into certain things that for a specific benefit for ourselves to a degree then we learn something we make some changes we gain a different perspective or a different mindset. And then if we have a desire to help others we can use those tools to help others and to change lives. And so that's what I did.
[00:32:32] Yeah. And I got to tell you what you said before we even got on here. We have a lot in common. It was the same with me everything I've ever done was because my dad put in my mind to be really excellent at it. And then when you are people will notice and ask you to help them with it. So that's kind of what you did. You did it yourself first and then I'm sure a lot of people around you noticed the difference in you and it evolved through you helping them.
[00:33:00] Well you hit it on the nose and I tell you I it really I think we really have a lot to be grateful for and for those of you who haven't been blessed with this the gift that that both Tom and I have had which is someone who believes in you. Obviously your dad believes in you and wanted you to be the best you can be. And I was very fortunate. I have parents the same thing. They really you know listen. They were near the end of their parenting rope. After four crazy kids and then twins come along in their late 40s. But they were near the end of their rope. But they really they believed in us and they always encouraged us they always wanted us to do our best and and supported us in that respect so I had that foundation like you to be able to fall back on. And I think that's the beginning of it. And then of course it's hey what do I need to work on. What needs to change. How can I improve and then consciously making those improvements not just wanting it not just desiring it but really going after it and finding ways to measurably make those changes.
[00:33:57] So you formalize this then and tell him the website the mind set website.
[00:34:04] Well we've got what we've done now. Like I said we're primarily digital marketing today and one of the things that we've wanted to do is go back to our passion. And when I say we of course my wife and I go back to the passion of this. We have so much passion with fitness about helping people change their lives through their body but knowing that it has to start with the mindset first. So we created a brand new digital product we've just really launched it's called Max mind lean body. And the reason we call it mass mind because it begins with the mindset. If someone struggling with losing the weight or they feel like they're aging prematurely or running into problems with early disease a lot of it comes from the mindset is what causes it in the first place in many respects. So we created radical Max mind lean body and we believe it's one of the most powerful you know transformation tool because it's so comprehensive.
[00:34:57] Well it seems to me that it's not only a big picture mind set but I was watching some of your videos just on YouTube. And you still gave nuts and bolts how tos not just you know get somebody all fired up about something but they don't really know what to do. So it seems like you gave them both.
[00:35:17] That's true and I appreciate that. Thank you Tom. I that that honors me and I do appreciate that you notice that. Yeah it's always key to give someone some tool then you know you've done that you're doing it.
[00:35:27] That's what. I mean I tell him how great selling on the Internet is. But if they don't know how to do it then they'll just bounce. It's like the old motivational speakers that people would be bouncing off the walls until they got out of the room. Now what. You know I don't know what to do. So if you mix both. That's when you could really get some success out of people.
[00:35:46] Absolutely right. And you and I have been both. I mean that years ago most of the most motivational speakers. And I think that's the difference between motivational speakers and sort of personal development trainers you might say trainers will give tools. Here's what you're gonna do next year we're going to do when you leave the room. Let's take some action right now Let's solidify this new belief right here right now and whether it takes or not that's something else. But let's get some tools in there and that's what we do in the mass mind lean body system. We really provide a lot of tools. Now listen I got to be honest it's not it's not something where it's just going to be easy it's not going to be easy it's not going to be this nugget there's gonna be some work involved there's gonna be some time involved but not a lot because once you make those changes once you've got the right tools to make the mindset changes and you implement what's gonna be needed now with a fitness program and a nutrition program now you're going to start to see results. If you don't change the mindset you just go into a fitness program and a diet. The chances are those seeds going to fail you've got something else to blaming nah that diet didn't work or that program didn't work. Well guess what. It wasn't the program. It wasn't the diet. It was your mindset. It was you how you approached it in many respects. That's not true for everyone. But I will go out on a limb and say that's true for about 85 to 90 percent of the people out there struggling with their weight. It's a challenge. But you've got to change that mindset in that belief system first.
[00:37:07] So what happens when they go to the site. What what are what do you offer there actually.
[00:37:12] Well go to the site take a look and you can watch the video that kind of takes you through the process you're going to learn a lot just going through that video. We're going to we're going to share with you in that video. The study that really solidified the tools that we use because there was a Harvard University study that was actually fascinating that really followed a group of maids housemates that just changed sheets and and took out the trash at hotels and how they were able to change your mindset. And as a result compared to the to the uninformed group how they actually change their physical results over a short period of time and that solidified it for us and it helped us provide some tools as well. So that video was going to show you some of the tools some of the things that you can do almost immediately to make the changes if you want to take it to the next level. We'd love to have you try the program you could be our our next testimonial. We want you to be the testimony because if if you want to be a testimonial I mean you've gotten results you've taken action you've changed your mindset and you've changed your body as a result.
[00:38:20] And this is for men or women right.
[00:38:22] Men and women. That's that's a good point Don because we know that you know the same program doesn't necessarily work for both men and women. You have to have subtle differences it's hormonal differences structural different even mindset differences. So my wife and I really work difficult. It really works hard and long at putting together similar strategies similar approaches. But with those subtle differences for both men and women that can make all the difference in the world in terms of in terms of getting results as a program that's for men and women but the same program isn't for men and women. We have one for men. We have one for women. And what's cool is that if you decide to invest in one or the men because I tell you most of the programs at the fitness programs diets nutrition books are being purchased by women they're the biggest market here. But a lot of them are buying programs for their men as well. So if you buy a program for yourself you're going to get the men's program free if you buy a program for yourself and a man you're gonna get the women's program free they are distinctly different programs. But you're going to get both and you give it as a gift. You can use it with your spouse don't do by the way if if you if you're getting it for your spouse make it subtle. You need that badly. Probably not a good strategy.
[00:39:46] Don't pop it on her when she asks do I look fat in this. Or Valentine's Day. I was going to get you chocolates but no Here's here's the thing at Tom's site.
[00:40:00] Not a good idea.
[00:40:03] So what do you like best about working for yourself. What's the worst part.
[00:40:07] Oh man I tell you that the thing could clearly in my mind the thing I like the best. Is the freedom. Or at least I guess I could define as the comfortable illusion of freedom. Because we're still working hard. My wife and I you know we can come and go as we please. We don't answer to anyone but ourselves. And if we want to take a break in the middle of the afternoon or in the middle of the week we have the freedom to do that. Our schedule you might say is set up around results not a time clock which is probably from me having that freedom having that autonomy is probably one of the most important reasons to start your own venture to start your own business. And of course you know I encourage a lot of people not just to start your own business or start your own venture merely on passion alone passion alone could be very costly. Make sure you've got the career capital and experience my any any success that I've had in the coaching industry comes from you know lots of experience lots of education lots of failures along the way and lots of connection for those take time. In many respects that doesn't mean you have to take the rest of your life to do this but don't jump too quickly into pursuing something just because you're passionate about make sure you have enough career capital. So I love the freedom that comes from that having built that capital and having built a business. That's that's the thing that probably for me is the most important.
[00:41:31] What's the worst part.
[00:41:33] Oh my God. He interestingly enough and I had a lot of ideas just now because it's just a great question. Freedom is the most important but freedom is also the worst part because we're accountable to no one else but us. We have the freedom to screw up big time. During my relatively successful bodybuilding career I always had great training partners and coaches. They held my feet to the fire and they kept me accountable. I couldn't miss a workout. I couldn't hold back on a set of heavy squats because man they would chastise me big time if I did. Oh you want to be Mr. America. Really? What the hell happened over there. Why did you miss that work. I mean forget it. I was always accountable to someone. Well today my wife slash business partner is my only accountability partner. Her and my own intrinsic desire to do what I do is the best possible level. And I haven't reached that best possible level yet and I suspect that my wife won't ease up until I do. But that's so that's also the worst part you have to keep yourself accountable and you give yourself the freedom to screw up big time. So freedom is actually the answer to both believe it or not.
[00:42:44] Yeah I get it. I happen to because of my dad. You know a heavy dose of motivation intrinsic. And I'd like to be by myself. Don't don't really care for anybody's accountable because they can't usually keep up with me. So. So we've got to take a brief sponsor message here and then when we come back we're going to ask Tom what's a typical day look like for him and besides his wife how he stays motivated to get up and I'm sure he keeps exercising too so we're going to ask him about that.
[00:43:21] So folks if you want somebody to hold your hand through creating stuff like Tom has he has digital he's the digital marketer now he's got all this knowledge. I'm sure he's got plenty more left to put up there. But but he's put his knowledge in an online form so anybody around the world can can purchase it. So there's a lot of details in that. So if you want somebody to hold your hand to teach you how to do that. My mentor program is the perfect fit for you because it's one on one. We don't lump in with group classes. You're not going to be confused because I'm talking above your head and if you're advanced you're not going to be bored because I'm talking below your head. It's one on one I shut the world out and work with you one on one along with all my subject matter experts. Plus we have two unique things you can't get anywhere else in the world. We have this two million dollar retreat center where you actually come in and live here for an immersion weekend with very small group of people as part of your yearlong program with me. And you also get. Just like Tom's giving a gift away of another digital program for the opposite sex. We give you a scholarship to my the only licensed dedicated internet marketing school in the country. The distance learning school the tuition is nineteen thousand one hundred dollars and you get that where you can either use it yourself or gift it to someone. So. So when you look at all this together it's the number one program in the world for this type of training. It's been going for 20 years now with loads and loads of success stories so. So anyway check that out at greatinternetmarketingtraining.com.
[00:45:11] All right let's get back to the main event. Tom what's a typical day look like for you. When do you get up. I'm sure you keep exercise in your life. Now. What do you eat. How do you work and all that stuff.
[00:45:24] Holy mackerel. Well it's relatively regimented. For the most part it's some. It's up every morning at 5 o'clock.
[00:45:31] Now you know that's a big thing for you right. Because I watched a video of you telling people how to stay on track over the holidays. And part of it was the journal planning out what you're going to eat so that you don't get sucked into eating a whole tray of cookies and you know all that stuff. So it doesn't surprise me.
[00:45:51] Creating awareness creating awareness around your own behavior. It's difficult to keep yourself accountable and to stay on track when you're not really sure it's not front of mind. It's really tough. So do I. And listen I have to practice what I preach so you know every day I get up around 5:00 and not always willingly. I mean this is part of the schedule I guess like what I like to stay in bed. I think I'm a I've never been I've never been one of those people that just sprang out of bed bright eyed and bushy tailed. It just doesn't happen. But I get up I never push the snooze button get right up. The first thing I do is I drink about between 8 and 12 ounces of water. Rehydrate. Get that. I mean literally before I do any before I even go to the bathroom I pound some water then I get cleaned up I take a shower. For me it's important also to take a shower. My wife likes to Charlotte the night before I always shower in the morning. You know in fact I try it because the next thing I do is I grab a bite to eat and these days you and I talked about this. We were both following you're probably probably following a much tighter.
[00:47:08] Well I have to be more strict than you because you get more sedentary and know always been had a propensity to gain fat.
[00:47:17] So you're on a pretty tight Keto approach with your diet. I'm on a Keto diet as well but I go to around 90 percent of I keep my carbohydrates up just a little under 100 on a daily basis.
[00:47:28] I'm like 20 or less.
[00:47:31] That's full on Keto which is for some people very challenging but the works. You could do it. Yeah. Anything that shows results and you stay healthy and energized man. You can find a way to do it.
[00:47:44] People can't believe it all cravings went away within two days of being cravings. My whole life and they all went away in two days.
[00:47:53] You know what's interesting is the most of the cravings come from the carbohydrates.
[00:47:56] That's right. Eat one donut. It's like Lay's potato chips you can't eat just one. Yeah so but yeah it stimulates you want more. Absolutely.
[00:48:07] You do you actually cause your blood you're rose up your insulin levels spikes then your blood sugar drops you want more. It's a vicious cycle it really is. Same thing with me when I lost because I used to eat a ton when I was bodybuilding and I still bodybuild but certainly not at the level I used to but I still workout pretty heavily in fact that's part of my regimen in the morning but I used to eat practically an entire loaf of bread every day on my own and then I would have a bagel pasta rice tons of carbohydrates and and so I finally realized that that's not the healthiest approach to a diet so I cut it down to a Cheeto type approach but with a little more vegetables and a piece of fruit here and there. So first thing I do in the morning I have I have to usually pretty large celery sticks or stalks with organic almond butter on it. That's my that's my breakfast before I workout. Then I head over to the gym and I train about four days a week or so any more than that. It's too much it winds up overtraining the body and after a certain age mature age the body isn't recovers quickly.
[00:49:16] And what kind of a gym do you go to now.
[00:49:17] You could call it a corporate training center it's in downtown Denver but it's got all the equipment I could possibly need everything I need all the free weights all the machines and they don't mind a little grunting and groaning. I have a tendency to I still go back to my body building days I can't hold it back I got a grunt and groan. So there are some great gyms out there but they don't they encourage it not to do any. I really don't want you to sweat either.
[00:49:49] They don't really want you to come at all because if they have 1000 members. But if all the members showed up the building would collapse.
[00:49:59] Well that's a classic model of classic Bally's model. So yeah I don't train. No. No those gyms are right for somebody but not for me.
[00:50:07] They know who you are though right.
[00:50:12] Yes. Exactly. I eat my my my celery and my my almond butter. I go right to the gym. Then I have a protein RECOVERY DRINK immediately after like on the way I was about a 20 minute drive on and as I have that on the way home about a half hour 40 minutes later I'll have a bunch of eggs.
[00:50:31] What is it. Is that drink pre mixed.
[00:50:34] Yeah yeah I have. We've gone with a plant based protein. I like it better. I was using whey protein for a long time but whey tends to it can cause inflammation or start some inflammation. The plant based protein powders seem to be much healthier much better.
[00:50:50] They're low carb.
[00:50:54] They're low carbs as well. Yeah. I add a little. I'm a big believer in creatine. I love creating just pure organic creatine. Great for the muscle great for the brain. Great Brain Food by the way. So it makes for a great mix. I use that with some glutamine to mean as well which is a what they call an anti catabolic so it shuts down the cortisol production or the cortisol damage that can take place when you're training you're training with level of intensity your cortisol level which is normally OK to have some but when it elevates too high it's a negative catabolic which means it causes breakdown in the muscle tissue in the cells. So you want to shut that down after the workout so glutamine allowing the creatine and a good plant based protein is perfect for that. Plus it gets you hydrated you drink it. I'll have about twelve 16 ounce of the water with that.
[00:51:46] Let me let me jump in here for a second because just today my my girlfriend's been complaining for a couple years about being exhausted during the day brain fog and she eats perfectly and I'm thinking something's wrong here. And. Turns out she she and she's perfect shape she's not like a big fat butt like me she's she had sleep apnea. I said I get checked in four hours she had forty one episodes of apnea in four hours and when. And the reason this stimulated me telling you about it is because the doctor said. So what happens is you stop breathing and then your body goes into freakout mode and dumps cortisol all over you 40 times in four hours every night. So that was killing her. So she's going to get where those CPAP machines and the and all that but the. Yes. The cortisol is all just dumping on you all day or all four straight hours at night for no reason.
[00:52:49] That's tremendously detrimental. No wonder she was exhausted. Yeah I mean I'm getting I'm getting a splash of additional cortisol with high intensity strength training for an hour and not even the full hour maybe 20 minutes of that workout and then it continues a little bit after unless you shut it down. The man getting injected into your body for five six times a night is just tremendous. No wonder she's exhausted.
[00:53:15] 41 times. So she's lucky to be alive after years of this.
[00:53:20] Not to mention the importance of sleep. I mean it's just you can't underestimate anyone who was tired or exhausted needs a look at how they're sleeping their bed their pillow.
[00:53:33] I mean you can even start with some of these apps and have your phone sit next to your bed and will give you some kind of information. She just has to put this thing on for one night and it recorded what's going on and the doctor read the thing and said we've got to get you a cpap machine because you're just dumping on yourself.
[00:53:53] I'm not going to ask if she snores and I will let that go I'm not going to ask that question.
[00:54:01] She she wakes up in a panic you know 40 times in four hours. No wonder she's exhausted.
[00:54:10] I tell you it's interesting my wife got a Fitbit not long ago and now in the morning I ask How'd ya sleep. She said wait let me check. She doesn't know I know doesn't know how she slept.
[00:54:23] That's good. That means it must have been good.
[00:54:24] Exactly. I slept good got up once or twice.
[00:54:28] All right so you're on your way home. You dumped out a protein shake and then what.
[00:54:34] And then I'll eat a little something first I'll check my emails. The only time I checked e-mails is first thing in the morning after the workout I designate about 30 40 minutes or so to answering e-mails. I try to ignore it. And you know you get tons and we get so much e-mail most of it is irrelevant or unimportant and can be put to the side. So I answered whatever is the most important like your e-mail like mine about this. I like you. Let's get back to Tom immediately first thing and I might check e-mails again just before I go to bed at night. I try not to but sometimes it's compulsion you get in there. Is there anything important I need to look at now. So I do that for about 30 40 minutes in the morning. Then I have my eggs. I'll eat another meal. I still eat five to six times a day and that's that's number one a habit that was created during my bodybuilding years. Anyways you get five seven to seven 7000 calories was either eat a box of donuts or eat five times a day. And it's also a good metabolic strategy for or for someone who's trying to lose up to a small grazing like meals. Not everyone can do it but for some it really works well. Having those smaller meals throughout the day. So I have that I have the eggs. Then I go back to work. That's when I start to get on line. I start to monitor we start to run. I got a quite honestly. My wife is really the backbone of our business. She is so good at running the business. The back end of everything we do all our digital products. So all I have to do is stay on the e-mails messages to people social media. Any additional promotions lining up interviews tweaking the products here and there is all these everything needs tweaking along the way.
[00:56:27] But the old story is that behind every great man is an amazing wife.
[00:56:39] I would I would refer to my wife more as dumbfounded. She looks over at me dumbfounded so that's so then I spent at the bulk of my morning and well into the afternoon. Then we take a break. That's all we take. You said you had a ton of dogs around. We've got we've got to Schnauzers that by 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon they are looking up at me like Are we going. And so I had to get up we had to take them to the park. If it's a nice day it's a nice summer like like we've experienced here in Colorado this week. We'll go over and I'll play what we call Slap ball we just grab a ball you know like a rubber ball. That's one of the dogs my chase and we just we just pat it back and forth back and what like a tennis ball. And it's a little bit of a workout but it's also a state change. We've been sitting in our chairs we've been sitting in our desks. We don't want to get out necessarily again and formal exercise but we get out we get there and it's interesting because the heart rate really gets up there doing this and we get some we get some sunshine we get a little oxygen we get a little exercise we change our state from being stuck behind a desk. This is something I recommend for everyone.
[00:57:53] I heard that the thing that the sitting is the new smoking.
[00:57:57] Whew. Is it that bad.
[00:58:00] Yeah. Yeah. Because you know guys like me get engrossed and I've got a million students to take care of and new stuff on the internet all day long. So 14 hours can go by. That is not good. That's why the dogs kind of keep me hopping like that.
[00:58:15] I tell you it's one of the great reason to have a dog. If they get your ass up moving you forever. But that's true. I mean it's especially and this is I think this has been a problem a challenge for a lot of a lot of marketers especially online and digital marketers and coaches yet and getting stuck behind the chair in front of the screen for so many hours.
[00:58:40] And then the young generation coming up. I mean you know the obesity rates and the mean you know you got eight year old kids morbidly obese and all they're doing is sitting in front of the video games and the tablets and they don't have to go to gym anymore. You imagine that you don't have to sweat anymore.
[00:59:01] As much as we would have liked that I hated gym in high school who enjoyed gym. You know but at least we were moving. Thank God for that.
[00:59:16] Yeah. You know you need a lot of horsepower to steal a Harley out of the woods.
[00:59:23] Let me tell you. You brought it up so I'll finish that because it was very different by now both tires were flat. But. The thing was sitting in the garage the 10 year old with two flats trying to push it with oh I got some digging this thing out of the hole the guy put it in and all of that and pushing it. You know we had to. It was like two and a half miles or so to my house. And so yes it did require a little energy. But like I said Not my proudest moment.
[00:59:54] All right so. So the people that listen as we call them screwballs. And so we're kind of parting thoughts which you have with all this experience you have and knowing that they either want to start a business or or improve the one they got. What are what are your parting thoughts for them.
[01:00:11] Well I think certainly if you have the ambition and the desire to get out on your own and to start your own business and there are so many opportunities today to do that above and beyond having to do a bricks and mortar you know I mean is somebody giving you become affiliate marketers you can become coaches you could become. There's so many different things. But the first thing I would say is do it but don't expect it to be an overnight success. Very few people have that experience that the other thing I would recommend is if you're just going to pursue it based on your passion. It could be a big mistake I think for a lot of entrepreneurs pursue your passion is it can in many respects be the worst advice you can get. You got to build up some real career capital you can't if you want to open a dry cleaner go to work for a dry cleaner. Spend some time work your way up the management learn the business before you go in there and do it unless you're buying a franchise that might be a different type of situation. But anything you want to do build up some career capital build up some experience get a couple of failures small failures that you can afford to deal with under your belt before you go ahead and jump into a big venture. The other thing and we didn't talk about this I had some pretty you know a couple of pretty epically failed partnerships and partnerships can be fantastic. Obviously you know they can be they can help your business grow faster they can be extremely productive is no doubt Two minds are better than one two creative ambitions or even better good partnership brings tremendous energy. But on the other side of the coin the wrong partnership can lead to disastrous results and even tarnish if not destroy your relationship.
[01:01:57] And your credit and a lot of credibility. If you don't structure things properly.
[01:02:03] Yup. So unlike your earlier college days don't just jump into bed with someone because you like their style their looks and their personality. In other words be very discerning about who you get into bed with who you partner with. I've had like I said I've had a couple of epically failed partnerships and a lot of it was because hey I was good friends with the guy. But never really did my due diligence and so be very cautious in that.
[01:02:31] So that's the nice thing about the Internet business is that the risk is so low with digital stuff that you don't need a partner to finance the whole thing. I mean you could learn to put a wordpress site up you can put a theme on it. You can write an e-book with almost zero investment. So. So it's less risky and there's no need for a partner. So absolutely. That's what I love about the Internet business.
[01:02:56] Oh I know. And we've got we've got several friends we've decided. You know it's what we love to do we decided to create our own products to take what we do for me to the stage or with our coaching put it down into digital products and to help people that way reach more people that way. But we have several friends who are tremendously successful as solopreneurs and not even with their own products that are just affiliate marketers.
[01:03:21] Absolutely. There are all kinds of opportunities.
[01:03:25] Yeah well there's so many different opportunities to be able to do that today to be able to start your own day to free yourself. Right. Screw the commute.
[01:03:33] There you go. You can even be working on some of this stuff while your commuting.
[01:03:38] I think I personally think that's one of the best approaches although you know burning the bridge sometimes.
[01:03:44] Yeah. Yeah you can't. You have no place to go. But but you know if you've got a family and you've got a lot of obligations you've got to do this smart and it might be harder in the beginning then easier because you're going to go to work all day and then you're going to work on this stuff all night and on the weekends and things. But my goal was to make it too expensive for people to go to work anymore so they finally build up enough income online where they could make more if they kept working that than go into work. And that's the time you would make the decision to put your notice tell them Take This Job and Shove It.
[01:04:21] Absolutely. And listen I've got one last piece of advice and I mean this with absolute 100 percent sincerity. if you're thinking about doing this and you and you feel like you could use a mentor or a coach you've been listening to one of the best coaches in the world and it's not me it's Tom Antion. Got started on his mentorship program because I got to tell you. It will be a year, I know it's going to be a year that will option change your life. There's no there's no doubt I know people that have gone through the program and it changed their life. It changed their trajectory. So I mean and again we talked about I talked about career capital experience know how there's a there's no way I could have won the Mr. America without mentors and coaches along the way. It just simply won't happen. None of the success I've had along the way would have happened without that. I just wish I had gotten with Tom Antion several years ago got a chance do it man.
[01:05:21] Well thanks so much for those kind words and thanks so much for taking all the time to really. You really have inspired me and and everybody listening to this. Absolutely. Because you got a lifestyle business you are doing what you're passionate about but you put the time in to get to that point. So that's you walk your talk better than just about anybody. So thanks so much. So everybody make sure you check out the show notes and go over to the mindset site of Tom's and get enrolled in a program because you get your mind straight. Get your body straight and you couldn't have a better role model than he and his lovely wife. Helping you along that path. So. So thanks again Tom. And will catch everybody on the next episode. See ya later.
Join my distance learning school: https://www.IMTCVA.org
Join the mentor program PLUS get a FREE Scholarship to the School: https://www.GreatInternetMarketingTraining.com