138 – From the Bronx to the Boardroom: Tom interviews Simma Lieberman

Episode 138 – Simma Lieberman
[00:00:09] Welcome to Screw the Commute. The entrepreneurial podcast dedicated to getting you out of the car and into the money, with your host, lifelong entrepreneur and multimillionaire, Tom Antion.

[00:00:25] Hey everybody it's Tom here with episode 138 of screw the commute podcast we're here with Simma Lieberman. And I've known this lady for I don't know maybe hundred 200 years or something long before she was even born I knew her. And she's got a great company on inclusively in the workplace she's made a whole career out of this. So we're gonna bring her on in a minute. Let's see. Last episode was 137 Bobbi Olson and she talked about something I really suck at but it's really important for your business and it's the exciting topic of budgeting. Yeah but it is really important so don't miss that episode if you did miss it. It's a really important thing so that you don't belly up in your business. Now I've got a big freebie for you. Thank you for listening. This podcast it's my twenty seven dollar e-book how to automate your business. And just one of the tips in this e-book has saved me over seven million keystrokes and I also have a nice little extra bonus for you over there so you can grab that at screwthecommute.com/automatefree. Now our podcast app is in the iTunes store. You can go to screwthecommute.com/app where we have complete instructions to show you how to use all the fancy features so you can take us with you on the road and put it on your cell phone and tablet. And also please tell your friends about this podcast. If you have somebody that's interested in starting a business or wanting to improve the business they have. This is the place to be. All right our sponsor this week. Hey guess what. It's me again. Tom Antion's internet marketing retreat and joint venture program where myself and my staff work with you for a year to either get you started in an Internet business or to use the Internet to take your existing business to the next level. And you can check all that out at greatinternetmarketingtraining.com and we'll have that in the show notes. But I do want to tell you just a little bit about something that I turned kind of the Internet world on its head around the year 2000 because people like me were charging 50 or 100 thousand dollars upfront to teach what we knew to business people. So I'm a small business advocate. I knew many small businesses could never afford that kind of upfront money. So I made all those gurus mad by charging a relatively small entry fee to my program. But I also got a percentage of profits that was capped. So you're not stuck with me forever. So for me to get my big money you have to make way bigger money plus you know I'm not going to disappear on you because I won't get my money. Right so so and I even took it a step further I have a big estate home and a TV studio where my students as part of their year long training come and actually stay in my house for an immersion weekend. And that's just one of the unique features of this program. So check out the full details at greatinternetmarketingtraining.com and we'll have that in the show notes.

[00:03:58] All right let's get to the main event Simma Lieberman creates inclusive cultures where people love to do their best work and customers love to do business. She's a consultant speaker and author and Simma produces and hosts the podcast everyday conversation on race for everyday people at www.raceconvo.com and I listen to an episode when I was impressed with that potentially volatile topic is that nobody's yelling and screaming everybody's actually talking and debating which is a beautiful thing and I'm sure it wouldn't happen if it wasn't for she being such a great host so Simma are you ready to screw. The commute. Boy it's been a long time I'm glad we get the chance to catch up. So tell everybody what you what you're doing with this inclusive work you're doing.

[00:04:59] Well I work with organizations to create environments where everybody loves to do their best work and customers love to do business. But it's even more than just love people so I like to work at places where people love working there. Well you could be a big party and people will love working there. But the idea is do they love doing their best work. And is it inclusive of everybody. Because when organizations aren't fully inclusive it means that they're losing some hidden genius because if everybody can't do their best work then the organization is missing out on people's talent.

[00:05:33] So this is more than putting pool tables in and giving them free lunch or what. What with all included in inclusiveness.

[00:05:41] Oh absolutely. It's looking at how do you access people's brilliance. How do you access your genius. I mean I've worked in different places where I've talked to people particularly people from but it happens with everybody could be the quiet person who says Well they hired me I was so excited to work there but once I got there nobody asked me my opinion. Nobody took my ideas seriously and I didn't feel like I was really part of that workplace. So as a result I stopped contributing so that people stopped contributing or that and they retire in place or they leave and they worked for your competition or they start their own business and they become your competition.

[00:06:29] Wow they retire and place that that's really a cool statement. I think that kind of tells tells the story doesn't it.

[00:06:37] Yes it's true. I've done it myself.

[00:06:41] That's how you know. So. So now this isn't a male or female thing right. This isn't like OK. They don't listen to the females and they do the males or even males fall into the same thing.

[00:06:54] Yeah. It's both. It's we're looking at everybody now. It's more often that women don't get listened to. OK so what I do too is I work with women or anybody who is not being listened to and I tell them here's what you do. Somebody is trying to take your idea. Here's what you say. Somebody is trying to shut you down. Here's what you say so besides the consulting the organizational piece I also do a lot of coaching too.

[00:07:18] Yeah. Because some of this is going to be very individual right.

[00:07:22] Yeah. Everybody has issues. I mean somebody could be like the quiet person and maybe people don't listen to their ideas and maybe that quiet person is not going to do well in brainstorming. So from that quiet person maybe what you have to do is you talk to them one on one or you ask them to write down their ideas or English may not be their first language and they're not going to do well in a brainstorming session or you have people like me I'm an extrovert I'll brainstorm all over the place but then I miss out on hearing some of the quieter people's ideas.

[00:07:51] Right. Right. So what tips would you have for small companies that don't have an enormous you know H.R. staff and layers and layers of management to to to use with which you have to offer.

[00:08:04] Well that's even better because you know how when you first start out an organization maybe you have three people and everybody has a say. But then you have 10 people not as many people have a say but everybody still thinks that they own the company. Or you have 20 people but before that you had everybody could take the case whenever they want but with 20 people you can't. So we have people look at when you're small organization what do you want your culture to look like. And once you know what you want your culture to look like we could look at what do you need to do when you're first starting. Do you have to maybe clarify people's roles in the organization so people know who the owners are. Who's not the owner or. OK everybody does have a say. How are you going to listen to people so it's better when you're just a small organization and you're just starting out because then you could actually make plans you can make contingency plans. You don't want to wait until you have two hundred people and you haven't made any yet. You haven't made any arrangements from your culture and then what you end up with is you. There was a default culture where anything goes nobody knows what you're doing. People aren't very productive and they hate working and they leave.

[00:09:14] Yeah. So so the first thing is is the main leadership needs to come up with a picture of what they want the company to be.

[00:09:23] It starts with the leadership it has to start with the leadership because the only people who have the power to make that happen they look at how do they want your organization to be now. How do they want the organization to be later than that if there's a senior team then they have to get together with your senior team and say OK how do we want this to happen and whether it's a small group or a large group. Whatever culture you create you have to let people know here's what we're doing here's what we're creating here's our values. And for me working in inclusion I have to look at how do you want to make sure that people get listened to and if they get heard.

[00:10:00] So how do you make sure like in the hiring process that someone is ok with that because you just think you just said about a person that got hired and was all excited and then found out that wasn't the right culture for them.

[00:10:14] Well what you do is you stop looking at for a cultural fit because some people say oh we want a cultural fit. They usually mean they just want people just like them. Like I'm talking next week to a guy I'm talking next week to a group of businessmen primarily men from Asia. And most of them are older. And the reason that they're bringing me on is because they're having a problem with the hiring what it is is that people tend to hire people who are just like them. They think that's a cultural fit but people but in this particular organization most of them may be from Asia but their market is international their market is global. They have to know how to develop relationships with people from every single background. And if everybody they hire is exactly like them it's not going to happen. So people have to learn how to develop relationships on their own with people who are different than them. And when you're doing the hiring it's best that you have more of a diverse panel of people hiring because it's just one person usually one person will hire people who are just like them where they feel most comfortable with. They say Oh to hire somebody who I could have a beer with but maybe that person who could you could have a beer with they may be B.S.ing and they may be conning you they know how to get into your good graces and what ends up happening is you hire them and they end up screwing up. That's going to screw up the whole organization.

[00:11:38] All right. Now I personally have no trouble stereotyping people. All right. I want to get your opinion of this Asian group of mostly men. Is it a fair thing to say that that culture doesn't value women as much.

[00:11:54] Not in this particular situation because what's happening is more women are coming in to the organization. But what they don't know how to do oftentimes is they don't know how to have those relationships with women like I did some work with it. I've worked with a lot of cops and one organ at one one agency I was worked with department I was working with I was meeting with the lieutenant and he said look we don't want to harass anybody by accident but we're not used to working with women. So we just don't know what to say. We don't know what to do. We want to make sure because we may harass each other but maybe that's not going to make women feel so comfortable. So it's not about not valuing women so much. It's about not knowing how or what do we do if we've always had the good old boys club. And this does happen. We always go to the strip club where we're bringing new people in. That's going to happen when we bring in women and other people maybe they don't want to go to the strip club or or you have young guys. You have what people call tick rows and the way that they bring people in is then they go on some I don't know white water rafting trip or whatever it is. I don't know. They go on climbing Mount Everest whatever the heck it is. But not everybody can do that. So if you're only going to hire people who could climb Mount Everest with you or go whitewater rafting go on a zip line you gonna lose a lot of people who are really great unless the job that you're hiring people for is to do mountain climbing or to ride a zip line. But other than that no it's not going to work.

[00:13:31] So what do you do. Like you know you see a lot of these team building activities and they could be kind of boring you know if you did have a bunch of people that can climb Mount Everest and you've got them playing shuffleboard you know that's not going to work either.

[00:13:47] No. Although I don't know I guess maybe it's. Well actually if you took everybody on a really great luxury cruise and they played shuffleboard that could actually work. They might prefer that to climbing a mountain. No but team building because people have an idea of what team building is they think that team building is. I don't know. You do a crossword puzzles together are going to you know climbing a mountain together. Are you going on these trust walks or. I don't I don't know you do things that you know is in danger of getting killed. But what I see is team building. People make stronger teams when they get to know each other. And you have to find different ways if you get to know each other. Well some people do get to know each other better by doing a task together. Other people get to know each other better by talking to each other. So you have to figure that out but you have to be able to create an environment where people actually get to talk and know each other because you have all these people we're going to do a team building exercise. OK. So they all learn how to. I don't know do like some walk like a hundred thousand feet above. Like on the Empire State topping the state daily yielded tight rope so they all help each other. They help each other survive big deal and they go back to work but they're not working on any projects together. Now I had to walk across the Empire State Building like that movie Bird On A Wire right there with you.

[00:15:14] Okay here's what I do. Tell me what you think about it. Twice a week we have a zoom or a Skype meeting and everybody tells everybody else what projects they've been working on but then they absolutely have to tell something at the end of what they did to improve themselves and all kinds of stuff comes out like. I mean it does it's not only always improve. Like Lakia has said oh I got these cheap sunglasses at the dollar store and they were really cool looking and they only cost a dollar and I said Oh you're not old enough to remember. But there was a song called cheap sunglasses and then so Larry goes and finds it on YouTube and starts playing it and everybody's having a good time laughing about that. And so is that. One way you get to know people or what.

[00:16:03] Yes yes it is. There's one thing that I really believe in is. I mean you and I are both funny. So you know what it is I really believe in is getting people to laugh when people laugh. That's when they find commonality together. But when you're just sitting around uptight working on I don't know what's ethical Django whatever it is you know when they're just doing stuff like that it's not going to help them really become more comfortable with each other because ultimately when you're a team you to be able to be comfortable you want to be able to be comfortable taking risks together. You may be able to be comfortable giving suggestions to each other and until you've laughs with people you don't really feel comfortable doing that.

[00:16:49] Got it. Okay let's take you back a little bit because this is an entrepreneurial podcast. So did you ever have a job.

[00:16:56] Well what it depends on what you mean by a job.

[00:16:59] Well where you work for somebody else for a paycheck not your own business.

[00:17:04] Oh I had maybe about 50 jobs by the time I was about 25.

[00:17:09] Wow. Okay us tell that story.

[00:17:11] Because you know people always talk about millennials that are all millennials. They don't really have a good work and can't stay at a job. I'm thinking who stays at a job when you're young more than a few months. Really. I said I had about 25 job at a time I was twenty five. Like waiting table. Okay. I always waited tables and one and then one invariably something would happen that I didn't like I have to leave. Like one time they wanted me to work on New Year's Eve but I had a date. So I had to quit. So I. So I would. So I had wait I waited tables I worked in really fancy clothing stores and I would pretend that something look good on somebody because I was young. I didn't really know it. I really didn't know what I was doing. I worked it in. I worked at an art supply store at the time I was using a lot of drugs who just don't use drugs at all anymore. At the time and the art supply store I was in high school. We'll just get high in the art supply store we just smoke pot or do whatever else we could do.

[00:18:21] It's legal now.

[00:18:23] Yeah. But at the time you know they didn't really want us getting high at work. And then the other thing I did was at the time it was called telephone soliciting. I sold aluminum siding. Now I'm from the Bronx. I only grew up in apartment building. I don't know what aluminum siding was but I got more appointments than anybody else because I used my own script. But they would listen into us at the time they used like phone extension. Was like dial up phone and then I got into a lot of trouble cause I was going off script but I was getting more appointments than anybody else. I still didn't know what aluminum siding was but I was selling the hell out of it.

[00:19:11] So what. So when did you start your own business. And like did you plan for it. Did you save up money. What. What was the transition.

[00:19:21] I wasn't in my own business but I was working as a. So basically you could say as a contractor I have my background. I had a master's degree in health education really holistic health. And I was working in pain management. I was working at sports clinics I was working at different medical offices doctors offices are working out of my house. I was teaching biofeedback in the West Coast. I was a crappy employee. No I really was. I used to say that there was something wrong with me because I was a crappy employee but then I knew I wasn't meant to be one. And so I was working in and working in this health care working as a contractor so I still had to be at places at a certain time. And I lost my job. I well I lost I lost the position and I was like crying and feeling really bad and saying oh what am I going to thing and somebody said yeah but you hated working for those people anyway. I said Yeah but it was what I knew. And they said that you hated it. You should start your own business and I said No I can't start my own business. I don't even know what I'm doing. So it was I didn't know anybody that had a salaried job. I don't know anybody in management even know how business worked. I just thought you know nobody nobody would hire me. And then people started giving me contracts. People started getting my old contracts do workshops I was doing workshops and in stress management and then I out of my house I was seeing individual people coaching them in stress management. And then somebody said Oh you have your own business and I said I do. Yeah yeah I said I am. I was going to I went to a meeting of American society for training and development. Somebody said well you should go to NSA National Speakers Association because you're a speaker it was like 1989 or something like that. And I said I am. And he said Yeah you are. And then the next thing I knew I had a business but I didn't know. And I really didn't know anything about business. I had no self-esteem really low self-esteem. I didn't know. I didn't know what HR was he would talk about HR. And I would just. But I had learned I'm from the Bronx. I grew up in the Bronx near Yankee Stadium. You know my family didn't have very much money. So what I learned was just to observe. I learned how to observe and I learned how to nod my head. And then I go look stuff up like an encyclopedia was before the Internet. And so people would talk about HR. I didn't even know what HR was I had to go look it up.

[00:22:12] Abbreviation for hour.

[00:22:16] But I was still get but I was getting contracts for work stress management training. So I was oh I was so stressed I was really stressed out. I didn't know what I was. I didn't I really didn't know what I was doing. And it took me several years before I understood what I was doing because I didn't understand. I didn't understand how business worked.

[00:22:44] Well then I mean we're being taxes paid and expenses.

[00:22:53] Let's plead the Fifth.

[00:22:56] Okay. A bit. Statute of limitations has run.

[00:23:01] It was a little bit messy because I didn't understand I didn't really understand how all those you really didn't understand how all those things work. So then I started going to workshops and actually. I mean I really did when I said I said you really I mean I learned a lot when I went to your workshop and about marketing and business because it's just what it wasn't my thing. I wanted to get a job but nobody would hire me. But I didn't really even. I really didn't want a job because I don't like you. I don't I really don't like being told what to do.

[00:23:30] Right. Right. So when did it start. Things start to gel a little bit for you where you felt more comfortable in business. Or did you ever.

[00:23:41] I don't know if I I don't know if I actually ever really did but. But I about like I'd say about 24 years ago things started I started thinking of myself more as a business person and a real consultant an organizational consultant. Then just as a contractor in fact one of my first really big when I first six figure contracts that I ever got I was working with the CEO but I had such low self-esteem. I didn't understand why this CEO would just call me to get my advice and were thinking why is he calling me. He should have the HR person call me What's he asking me for my advice for what does he think I am. I mean it's really different now. But at the time I didn't understand it until finally one of my friends said don't you get it. You are an expert in what you do. You don't have to be an expert in what they do. You have to be an expert in what you do. And he's looking at you for your expertise.

[00:24:39] Right. Right. That was a big big revelation for you.

[00:24:42] So that was a huge revelation. It really was. And when people started asking me for my advice it took a while but when I got it I really got it.

[00:25:00] Okay. It's a good lesson for everybody out there is that you might think that why would somebody asked me for advice. But if you're an expert in your field just because they're big shot in some other field doesn't mean anything. They don't know your field. Like you don't know their field but they may ask you so you don't have to feel bad when someone else asks you for your advice because they believe that you know what you're talking about on something that they don't or they wouldn't be asking you.

[00:25:26] Know know and no matter what it is that you're doing you're the expert in your field. If they were the expert in your field they wouldn't need you. Obviously they need you for something. And when I learned that and I also learned that there sometimes is no one right answer that there's lots of other answers. And for me as a consultant what's most important is that I understand process so that I can help other people find what they need to find by helping them go through the process. I don't have to know the answers. I just have to know how to help people get the answers right now.

[00:26:02] Was it a big culture shock for a Bronx girl to move to the west coast.

[00:26:06] I moved from the Bronx to Eugene Oregon.

[00:26:09] Ok. Well it's the West Coast.

[00:26:12] That was the biggest culture shock ever. What I felt when I moved to the west coast I was like 22. Well what happened was I grew up in the Bronx and I would watch like these quiz show you know that they said those quiz shows and I thought people don't really like this really don't exist. They're just making these people up. And I thought they were all actors. And then I would watch like Donna Reed and I thought Nobody's like this. Come on you know both my parents work. It's a build up of mothers just stay home. So then I moved to the West Coast moved to Eugene Oregon and I thought Oh my God these are the people from the quiz shows and I called my mother I said Mom these people are just like the people in the quiz shows. You wouldn't believe it. I said they live in private houses. They were all rich which they were not. But I thought they were all rich. I thought you had to be rich to live in a house. But at some I remember one day we will go on going up into the woods wood chopping wood. And somebody asked me if I'd ever seen trees before. It was before the Internet. Yeah. So no had I ever since I said Yeah we have Central Park.

[00:27:23] So. So you went to Eugene Oregon but then when did you go to California.

[00:27:29] I was in Eugene for about eight years I've in Cal. Then I went to Portland and then I moved to California. I went to I moved to California to study Holistic Health okay because I had been really unhealthy when I moved to the west coast. I gained like 70 pounds.

[00:27:46] I never would have dreamed that in a million years you're thin.

[00:27:50] I'd never been in a fast food place before I got addicted to McDonald's. I'm like two two Big Macs it at a meal and Coca-Cola and I got big I was smoking. Oh yeah I had migraines headaches. I was like a total mess. So I had to change my life so I started learning about holistic health care so that I was in Portland. And then I said I want to help other people. So I moved out to California.

[00:28:16] Wow. Well. They need help out there. So what do you like best about working for yourself and what's the worst part.

[00:28:27] Well the best part for me. Is I don't like people. I really don't like people telling me what to do . I mean I had one job for about three weeks. No I did like it. I won't tell them my business was doing well I said come and take a job so I took a job for three weeks and they didn't have. This is a long time ago and they didn't have computers and I said Hey I need to work on a computer I have my computer at home I about I work from home. And she said no we don't work for home from home. I said OK next. And I left because I just couldn't I can't. Or the other thing I can't stand is when people tell you what to do for no reason.

[00:29:03] Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:29:04] You know you have to look busy why do I have to look busy for. I like working but for myself because I like having my own thoughts and I could really be myself. And plus I could be creative. And nobody is telling me how much money I can make or can't make. And I could be creative. That's what I like the most. The thing I don't like the most about it is I don't really just like working by myself so much anymore. I really like being part of a community of other people who work for themselves. And so that's what I had to do I've had to create a community of other people who also have their own businesses where we can actually hold each other accountable because I tend to be I tend to have a ADD I mean like real ADD so I can get distracted very easily.

[00:29:58] So I mean is that why you're. Is there an actual association or that's why you're in that that shared place throughout your recording from right now.

[00:30:07] Well that was originally why but. But not so much. But you know like things like national speakers so well I work I do stuff like with Alan Weiss the Society for the Advancement of consulting or I just bring different groups of people together like I bring four or five different people who work for themselves together. I say hey let's let's talk let's meet at once a month let's share what we're doing. Let's ask each other for help because there's a lot that I don't know how to do. And I have to ask people for help. I have to hire people or I have to ask somebody for help.

[00:30:42] Yeah for sure yeah. Everybody needs help for sure. Nobody can do it all. So tell everybody how they get a hold of you what kind of things you could help them with in the and the offerings that you have.

[00:30:55] Ok. You could you could reach me at Simma@simmalieberman.com. That's my Website and you could help me if you would looking for a great speaker on anything related to diversity equity and inclusion or creating inclusive work cultures where people love to do their best work. I'm the person that you need to call and what you really love about me is that I make people laugh and I bring people together in ways to talk in ways that other people don't. I get people to be comfortable talking without being uncomfortable.

[00:31:36] Yeah. You had me laughing today about the quiz shows. Still cracking me up.

[00:31:42] And so I saw and I consult I I said you left consulting organizational consulting if you're looking to create a great culture in your organization. I facilitate if you're looking for people somebody who could facilitate meetings facilitate workshops and also speaking. I'd love to come and speak at anybody's conference or looking for somebody to emcee a panel. And if you're looking for somebody who doesn't take themselves too seriously I could get people to laugh while talking about really talking about these subjects but get people to laugh and the other thing is I have a podcast on race and I'd love people to listen to my podcast. It's everyday conversations on race for everyday people and you can find it at www.raceconvo.com.

[00:32:36] Yeah I just listened to an episode today and I like that I was I was a little apprehensive and I haven't talked to you for a long time and I thought this is this is what things should be you know people with differing opinions talking it out and making their arguments without being so mean and rotten and so forth so is really really great. But you're still doing the individual coaching.

[00:32:58] Oh yes I. I do a lot of individual coaching Well I coach leaders on how to be really inclusive leaders how to be able to get the most out of their employees and to be able to discover and uncover the hidden genius that their employees bring to organizations.

[00:33:15] Got it Got it got it. So they can find this all on your website right.

[00:33:19] Yes. And also I also coach people in building confidence.

[00:33:23] Ok so we'll have the links to her all her stuff in the show notes. We got to take a brief sponsor break and when we come back we're going to ask Simma what's a typical day look like for her and how she stays motivated.

[00:33:38] So folks if you want someone to hold your hand through all kinds of Internet stuff Simma's been kind enough to mention that I kind of got her started in a lot of people she mentioned today that a lot of people started because to me round nineteen ninety four is when I got in this and people started begging me to teach them. I never planned on being Mr. Internet guru. But but my mentor program is the longest running most successful and most unique in the entire world. Basically it's run continuously for 19 plus years now and thousands of people through it. So you'd like to hear about that. You want some actual help not just throw money and then we disappear on you. I'm the guy and I have a whole team of people here with subject matter experts that you can make appointments with they tutor you one on one they'll take over the screen on your computer to show you what you're supposed to be doing and they'll look at what you are doing. And so besides me and all of them you can really make some rapid progress so you can check that out at greatinternetmarketingtraining.com.

[00:34:51] OK so let's get back to our super duper guest my old buddy Simma and so Simma what does a typical day look like for you.

[00:35:02] Well there is no typical day. I've actually tried to create typical days. I guess I don't have a discipline for a typical day. But what it normally what I do is when I'm being typical what I do is I get up first I get up early in the morning I go work I have to work out every single day.

[00:35:18] What time you get up.

[00:35:20] Well I like getting up at 6:00. I like getting to the gym at six thirty. But I started doing a boot camp where I get up at five thirty and I have to be there at six. Making money sitting on your butt. I love that. That was the best thing. Oh that is the best thing in actually because of you I actually have written some some books that I've actually make money on every month and I just think about making money sitting on my butt. Not a ton of money because I don't really do a whole lot to market the books but people find them there. So the typical day was I have the like typical day starts the night before because I have to make my list of everything that I need to do and a little bit of a time thing on the next day. So when I wake up I go to the gym I eat my breakfast I start making phone calls so I call people I have to do I have to do follow up if I don't follow up with people they forget who I am. So I do that and then I I write like I do a lot of blogging. I read a lot of articles I write news I write for a couple of magazines and if I and hopefully I have meetings as I try to have as many I try to have at least several meetings a week I go to meetings and where I where I go to meetings to develop relationships with potential clients and also to get business and then there's the other time so I'm actually at a client site working. I just recently spoke at a retreat for a large a large company and so that my whole day was going and speaking at a retreat and it was it was great I had such a great time because I love. the piece that I love the most is I love working with clients I love speaking or consulting and working with people I loved having an impact. But the other piece marketing. I like it. I'm not I'm it's not like my strong suit. So I need motivation to do that. On the other hand if I don't market then I then I need to be homeless.

[00:37:21] Especially in the high cost there you live in Berkeley right.

[00:37:27] Yeah it's really expensive. It's really expensive. So I have to do the more I have to do marketing and then I always make a point of trying to at least one other either a consultant or somebody who has a business so that we can share what we've done. That what our plans are for the day. What we've gotten done and also ask each other for help.

[00:37:50] Well that's nice. So you have like how many people in your group.

[00:37:53] Well this about five and my very close group but then there's other people because oftentimes I will get a really if get a really big contract that we have people that we call on to get the contract or I also have to write proposals for the client. So I mean it's it's constant movement.

[00:38:08] So you seem like a pretty high energy person. So do you really. But you said you have to stay motivated the market is it just to keep from being homeless.

[00:38:16] No it's to keep from actually stopping or reading a mystery.

[00:38:20] You like that.

[00:38:21] I love to read. I love to read it until it my best friend is my Kindle. Oh yes. I'm always reading all the time and I have to get motivated because if not I want to know the ending of the mystery like who did the killing. So oh it's 10:00. Oh no. Oh it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon. All I have to keep. I also have to keep myself off of YouTube.

[00:38:42] Oh yeah. I know the feeling yeah. But the Kindle is good. I love the Kindle especially because every time I would go on a speaking trip it'd be like I'd have like 12 different books I wanted to bring with me and got the whole suitcases full of books and now it's all in one you can have a thousand books in your hands.

[00:38:59] Yeah remember the old days. I remember the old days when I carry all these books. Oh my goodness it was terrible. But so for me the way I stay motivated is by I say whatever I call people up on the telephone or our or I have a Zoom call or text. But for me now this is natural for everybody. Now I know people like Alan Weiss and other people like that are very internally motivated. So they don't really need to talk to other people. I'm one of those people that that that do. And it took me a long time to feel comfortable with that cause I used to feel like there was something wrong with me because I needed to be around other people to really be motivated or to be focused. And then finally I realized no that's just how I am. If this is what helps me get things done then this is what I need to do. And so that's that's really that's really what motivates me being around other people or talking to other people. I'm not I don't really I'm not really a good team person like I don't want to be part of anybody's team. You know when people tell you what to do I don't wanna be told what to do. And I don't want a bunch of rules. I do like having people where I could share ideas with and then I get motivated because I say What do you think about this. And they say oh have you thought about that because I really believe in the synergy of the group. To me that makes difference. The other thing that motivates me I put dollar I have posters that I just put dollar signs on post its.

[00:40:28] So I tell you what it's really great catching up with you. And thanks so much. We're gonna put all the stuff that you said in the show notes so people can go there and click on links and get over to Site see all the great offerings we have if they need coaching or they want to bring you into their organization. Boy I know you're a blast I've known you for a long time. So thanks so much for coming on.

[00:40:57] Thank you. Thank you for it. Thank you for your years of generosity with so much of your intellectual property that you share with everybody.

[00:41:04] Well it's my pleasure. That's the way I roll. So so good so good catching up with you.

[00:41:10] Ok. Thanks.

[00:41:12] So everybody that was Simma Lieberman and you'll have the correct spelling of her name in our show notes and make sure you check out greatinternetmarketingtraining.com. If you'd like to have personal attention from my whole organization. Me included. I don't sign you up and then disappear. I'm one of the main people you'll be talking to to help you with your business and also sign up for our app at screwthecommute.com/app get your freebie at screwthecommute.com/automatefree and next episode our Monday episodes are usually in-depth training and I'm having my guy that does the back end of our podcast we're going to do a series so this Monday he's going to talk about all the things that go on after I give him the recording and there's a lot of it so you don't want to miss that episode and then the following Monday I'll talk to you about all I do on the front end of it to book guests and do all the stuff to get a good recording and edit all that stuff so. So watch for those on our Mondays and we'll have some great interviews with great people like Simma. Not as great as Simma of course but we'll have interviews for you of other great entrepreneurs on Wednesdays and Fridays every week and then also one other thing I want to keep reminding people of is our special youth editions where we like to highlight once a month some young person maybe up to 22 years old or early 20s. Doing something entrepreneurial. You get him in touch with me and we'll see if we can get them on a special youth edition. So anyway we'll catch y'all on the next episode. See ya later.

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